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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 10:53 pm
Quote:
Guilty plea scheduled in Wilkes-Barre man’s rape case
Gary L. Machinshok, 28, to appear July 21 before Judge David W. Lupas

July 02. 2014

WILKES-BARRE — A Wilkes-Barre man who was tentatively scheduled to go to trial this month in connection with rape and sex abuse charges involving two teenage girls now is scheduled to plead guilty, according to paperwork filed Wednesday in Luzerne County Court.

Among the accusations made against Gary L. Machinshok, 28, is that he repeatedly raped one girl starting when she was 14, several times in 2012 and 2013, and that wife Misty Machinshok watched her husband rape the girl, even offering advice on what to do during the sexual assaults.

Gary Machinshok is to appear before county Judge David W. Lupas at 9:30 a.m. July 21 to enter his plea, an order signed by the judge states.

Efforts to reach his attorney, Charles Ross, were not immediately successful Wednesday.

Husband and wife were arrested after Luzerne County Children and Youth Services removed two girls from their Park Avenue home in October.

Gary Machinshok was charged Oct. 29 for allegedly raping the 14-year-old. After his arrest, Machinshok allegedly told police he and his wife had a plan to get the girl pregnant and raise the baby as their own because Misty Machinshok was unable to have children.

Police said the girl reported she told Gary Machinshok “no” and told him numerous times to stop. Gary Machinshok told the girl that if she didn’t want to have sex, he would go have sex with her younger sister, according to criminal complaints against him.

Gary Machinshok was arrested again a few weeks later on allegations that he sexually assaulted the younger sister from August 2012 through June 2013. The younger sister was unaware her older sister was allegedly being raped, the complaints say.

Gary Machinshok was charged with five felony counts, including indecent assault of someone younger than 13, endangering a child’s welfare and corruption of minors, in the November arrest.

He faced seven felony assault counts and a trio of misdemeanor indecent assault counts from the October arrest.

Misty Machinshok was charged with 10 counts of criminal conspiracy involving rape and sexual assault. A pre-trial hearing in her case is set for 9:30 a.m. July 28, according to court documents.

Gary Machinshok remains incarcerated in the Luzerne County Correctional Facility in lieu of $200,000 aggregate bail, officials said Wednesday, and his wife remains held in lieu of $350,000 aggregate bail.
http://www.timesleader.com/news/local-news-news/1507268/Guilty-plea-scheduled-in-city-mans-rape-case
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:04 pm
Law graduate found guilty of falsely accusing former boyfriend of rape
The allegations made by Rhiannon Brooker meant Paul Fensome was arrested, charged and held in prison for 37 days

A law graduate faces jail after being found guilty of falsely accusing her former boyfriend of a series of rapes and assaults as an excuse for doing poorly in her barrister training.

The allegations made by Rhiannon Brooker meant Paul Fensome was arrested, charged and held in prison for 37 days.

Following an 11-week trial, the jury of 10 men and two women at Bristol crown court on Thursday found Brooker, who has an eight-month-old child, guilty of perverting the course of justice. She was given bail but could be jailed when she is sentenced later this month.

The campaign group Women Against Rape (War), which has supported Brooker, 30, claimed the police and Crown Prosecution Service put more resources into such cases than into investigating violent crimes including rape.

A War spokesperson said the prosecution of Brooker was "completely disproportionate", adding: "Time and again we see police resources diverted from rape and put into prosecuting women instead."

War argues that such prosecutions can deter women from reporting rape and domestic abuse. The spokesperson said: "We must bring an end to these witch hunts. If the authorities want to turn the clock back and put women off from coming forward, prosecutions like this are a very effective deterrent."

But Fensome, a railway signalman, called for a severe jail sentence, saying the accusations had turned his life upside down. "Anything less than four years and she's got off lightly. She could have lost me my job, my family and my good name. When I first heard about the accusations I was shocked. I was completely gobsmacked when they came to arrest me. The impact has been absolutely massive on my family. My heart goes out to anyone who has been raped and, obviously, I feel they should still report it."

Chief Superintendent Sarah Crew, Avon and Somerset police force lead for rape and sexual offences, said Brooker was calculating and manipulative.

She said: "I understand cases like this can cause real concern for victims about whether they will be believed when they come forward. We want to assure all victims of rape, sexual assault and domestic abuse that we will listen to and support you every step of the way."

A CPS spokesperson added: "False rape allegations are very serious and can have a devastating impact of those who are wrongly accused, but research carried out by the CPS last year showed such cases are very rare.

"We robustly prosecute those cases where there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest to do so, but our research has shown that very few cases are taken to court, particularly when compared to the total number of prosecutions for rape."

David Bartlett, prosecuting, told the jury that Brooker was living an "active social life in Bristol" and not doing the work required to pass her assessments, so she made up the allegations to excuse her poor record.

Brooker's supporters claim that in fact her work was excellent.

The jury heard that Brooker, who was living in south Gloucestershire, told fellow students she had been assaulted and raped. She also claimed Fensome had punched her in the ribs when she was pregnant, causing her to lose the baby.

She finally went to the police and made allegations against Fensome. But alibis, evidence from Fensome's phone and his work shift patterns undermined or disproved her accounts. Some of her injuries were judged to have been self-inflicted and the police discontinued their investigations into Fensome and turned their attention on Brooker.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/05/law-graduate-guilty-falsely-accusing-boyfriend-rape
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:08 pm
Married mother accused of 'making repeated fake rape claims - including one that drove her prom date to move state after he was expelled'

Prosecutors believe Christina Nadine Nelson, 23, of Billings, Montana, made several false rape or assault claims between 2009 and 2012

The German exchange student accused her high school prom date of rape
A month after the prom she wanted to drop the charges, but the boy had already been expelled and his family had moved state

In 2012, she claimed her ex-boyfriend raped her in the parking lot at work, but she only told her husband after intercourse later that night

When detectives reviewed parking lot surveillance footage from that night, they found no evidence to substantiate her claims
It is unknown if Nelson is in Billings or if she has returned to Germany, where she was born


The Montana Supreme Court has ordered the reinstatement of charges against a married mother first charged with repeatedly fabricating false rape claims in 2012.

Prosecutors believe Christina Nadine Nelson, 23, of Billings made several false rape or assault claims between 2009 and 2012.

The charges had been dismissed last July by Judge G. Todd Baugh, but last week the state’s supreme court overruled his decision and ordered a reinstatement of the accusations.

The justices ruled that there is sufficient evidence to let a jury decide the case, reports the Billings Gazette.

The first accusation against Nelson dates back to 2009, when she said she was raped on her way to prom.
Nelson, a foreign exchange student from Germany, was a student at Columbia Falls High School.

She claimed her prom date raped her and cut her with a knife, but detectives found inconsistencies with her statements. An investigation found she suffered no cuts on the night of her prom.

When detectives asked if there was blood on her prom dress from the cuts, Nelson told them there was blood but she had washed it off.

A month after the prom, Nelson stated she wanted to drop the charges against her date.

After her initial rape report, the boy was expelled from school and not allowed to return to campus.

'He moved out of state because he felt that his reputation was destroyed by Christina's allegations,' court documents state.

'Christina had a motive or pattern of accusing young men that she had dated of raping her and assaulting her when no such rape or assault had occurred'

In 2012, Nelson claimed she was raped by her ex-boyfriend. She said he approached her in the parking lot of her workplace and hit her repeatedly before forcing her into the back of his van and raping her.

Nelson said after the assault, she went to a bar to have a drink with a friend, before going to the gym with her husband.

After having intercourse with her husband later that night, Nelson told him about the rape. He took her to Billings Clinic for an exam.

But when detectives reviewed parking lot surveillance footage from that night, they found no evidence to substantiate her claims.

Video showed Nelson walking from her workplace to her car and driving away. Detectives also learned that her ex-boyfriend was out of town on the night she claimed he raped her.

Between 2009 and 2012 a total of five medical rape exams were conducted on Nelson and she made two reports of assault.

'Christina had a motive or pattern of accusing young men that she had dated of raping her and assaulting her when no such rape or assault had occurred,' prosecutors state in court documents.

It is unknown if Nelson is in Billings or if she has returned to Germany, where she was born.

After Baugh dismissed the case, Nelson was allowed to travel out of the country.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2655830/Married-mother-accused-making-repeated-fake-rape-claims-including-one-drove-prom-date-state-expelled.html
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:12 pm
Oxford Union 'rape victim knew her claim was false'
Online conversations passed to police investigating rape allegations against Ben Sullivan appears to show one of the victims admitted their relationship was consensual

One of the students who accused the president of the prestigious Oxford Union of rape appears to have admitted almost a year earlier that their relationship was consensual, The Telegraph can reveal.

Ben Sullivan, 21, was arrested on suspicion of rape and attempted rape in May after two undergraduate students accused him of forcing himself on them after nights out in January and April last year.

Last week, Mr Sullivan was cleared of the charges and it can now be revealed that evidence passed to the police appears to show one of the victims knew their allegations were false.

In one online conversation seen by The Telegraph, one of the students appears to have told Mr Sullivan directly that she knew their affair was consensual, and pledged to help dispel rumors that he raped her.

The dialogue, which was included in the investigation along with further evidence, suggests the existence of a plot cooked up to undermine his tenure as Oxford Union president.

The same woman is understood to have described “collecting” sexual encounters with Union politicians because it feels “glamorous” and “naughty" in an anonymous article.

Discussing on Facebook rumours that she was raped by Mr Sullivan after an event in January 2013, the alleged victim reassured the Union President: “If we ignore it, it’ll go away.”

Mr Sullivan replied: “People are going around accusing me of rape... How on earth could this have happened? I can't really just ignore people accusing me of a felony I obviously did not commit."

The student, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said: “When I got back to [my college] there were a bunch of people who’d been on [an event] outside the bar.

“I was drunk, crying and half dressed, no one knew that I’d just got back together with my boyfriend - that’s how people got the wrong idea.

“The next day I told everyone that was not what had happened, people just assumed - and a few girls decided that I was traumatised and suffering from victim guilt, which is ridiculous.

“My boyfriend didn't find out until someone told him at the end of trinity. He then broke up with me. You can't seriously think I would want that. I'm trying to ignore it because I still feel so, so guilty about cheating on him.”

When asked whether she believed the rumours were true, she added: “I know it must be absolutely awful for you but it's not something I wanted people to find out - being known as a cheat is not fun. And no, of course they're not. I was far too drunk, that's it.”

Seeking the alleged victim's help, Mr Sullivan replied again: “I will tell them its obviously not true and to ask you about it if they don't believe me? Is that ok?”

“That's so, so fine,” the alleged victim responded.

Elsewhere, the same student is believed to have boasted of sleeping with “Union hacks” who regularly feature in Oxford’s three student newspapers.
She added that the allure of sexual encounters with well-known students was to develop a status as a “conquest-collector”.

Her allegations against Mr Sullivan resulted in many high profile speakers cancelling their appearances at the Oxford Union, including Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble and David Mepham, UK Director of Human Rights Watch.

Mr Sullivan has described the allegations as “poisonous” and spoke for the first time of his "nightmare" ordeal after a six-week investigation.
He said: "Seeing my reputation trashed has been sobering and painful. My whole life has been rifled through and examined. It has been utterly draining."

"These poisonous allegations have made me re-evaluate everything. It has been very testing. I wondered how anyone could believe something so vile. I wondered how I was going to withstand all the poison.

"But did I ever have a moment of self-doubt? Did I ever think 'Am I sure I remember exactly what happened?' No, never. Not once. Yes, I had sex with the girl who claimed I raped her. But it was consensual. That is the truth."
Neither of the alleged victims responded to requests for comment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10934144/Oxford-Union-rape-victim-knew-her-claim-was-false.html
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:27 pm
This promises to be quite a trial...it's scheduled to begin at the end of August.
Quote:
Graphic Evidence Described In Vanderbilt Rape Case
July 1, 2014

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Shocking new information was revealed in the Vanderbilt rape case Monday.

Graphic new details emerged during an all day hearing in Davidson County Criminal court about crucial cellphone video evidence showing what happened. The video remains under seal, but a Metro Detective being questioned described the content of that video.

Judge Monte Watkins heard motions in the case against former Vanderbilt football player Brandon Vandenburg. He is one four former players accused of raping a student in a campus dorm last June. All have pleaded not guilty.

Defense attorneys for Vandenburg were arguing for a dismissal of all charges against him.
Metro Detective Chad Gish was being pressed by attorney Albert Perez, who represents Vandenburg, on whether evidence had been lost or destroyed.

Gish described what he found.

"I found images of a victim being brutally raped off of your defendant’s cell phone," Gish testified.

Some his testimony was very graphic. He mentioned seeing images of one of the suspects with his fingers inserted into the victim’s vagina.

Gish said the images were not of Vandenburg but one of the other suspects. He said either Cory Batey or Brandon Banks.

The video has never been made public and is expected to be a very important part of the criminal case when it goes to trial in August.

Also in court Monday, Assistant District Attorney Jan Norman said that the defense attorneys violated the state's rape shield law when they filed a motion of more than 100 pages that contained personal information about the rape victim, such as her name, photos, medical records and Twitter account.

She accused the defense of trying to intimidate the victim, even though defense attorneys say they didn't do anything wrong and that the information was public record.

Prosecutors representing the alleged victim asked Judge Watkins to charge their defense attorneys with criminal contempt of court.

Judge Watkins upheld the existing gag order, but said he'd rule on contempt at a later date.

On Friday, Vandenburg turned himself in at the Criminal Justice Center to be booked on a modified state charge against him for tampering with evidence.

He was in custody for several hours because of a paperwork issue, but was later released on his former bond. He will attend the hearing Monday.

In August, officials with the Metro Nashville Police Department arrested Vandenburg along with Cory Batey, 19, of Nashville; Brandon Banks, 19, of Maryland; and Jaborian "Tip" McKenzie, 18, from Mississippi. They were indicted on five counts of aggravated rape and two counts of aggravated sexual battery.

Police said they raped an unconscious victim inside Vandenburg's room at his Gillette House dorm in the early morning hours of Sunday, June 23, 2013.The university was made aware of the situation when officials observing the dorm's hallway surveillance recordings for an unrelated situation saw concerning behavior by the defendants.

Vanderbilt dismissed the players June 29 and kicked them off campus, pending the investigation by the Metro Nashville Police Department's sex crimes unit.

Three other men also faced charges in connection with the incident, including Vanderbilt student and former Commodore wide receiver Chris Boyd.

In September 2013, Boyd was dismissed from the football team, but allowed to stay in school after entering a conditional guilty plea to a role in attempting to cover up the rape. Boyd received an 11-month, 29-day suspended sentence for criminal attempt to commit accessory after the fact, a misdemeanor. The initial charge was a felony.

If he completes probation, his record will be cleared. As part of the plea, he agreed to cooperate with prosecutors to help build the case against the four former football players charged with rape.
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/25899881/hearing-underway-in-vanderbilt-rape-case
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:32 pm
'False rape' cases soar in Delhi as number of acquittals hits 78 per cent

Rape is sinister, but perhaps equally sinister is the use of false rape charges as a tool to extort vulnerable men.

The number of cases of rape has seen an alarming increase in the Capital after the December 16 gang-rape incident, with two such cases being reported daily on an average.

However, "frivolous rape cases" have also seen a phenomenal rise, with accusations being used when relations go sour, or to settle scores.

Data from Delhi Police show 616 rape and 1,336 molestation cases were registered between January 1 and April 30.

This is a 36 per cent rise in rape cases against the 450 cases registered in the same period of last year.

Though there is an increase in the number of rape cases, the percentage of the "accused" being acquitted has shot up considerably too.

"In 2013, 1,559 rape and 3,347 molestation cases were registered as compared to 680 rape and 653 incidents of molestation in 2012. However, the acquittal rate in rape cases was 46 per cent in 2012, while it shot up to 78 per cent in 2013.

"Acquittals remain high so far this year as well, accounting for around 72 per cent of the cases," a senior police officer said, on condition of anonymity.

In a recent case, three domestic helps from Jharkhand had registered rape cases against their employers to extort money from them.

The racket was exposed as one individual was common in the complaints filed by the three in all the separate cases, which raised suspicion.

They complainants later confessed that the charges were fabricated before a city court, which directed the police to probe the matter.

"Few years back, I came to the Capital from Jharkhand seeking a job. A placement agency helped me find employment.

"However, salary of around eight months was not paid by the agency and when I went there seeking the dues, people at the placement agency suggested that I file a false rape case against my employer.

"When I refused to do so, they threatened me of dire consequences and I was forced to file a false rape case with the East district police against my owner and his friend in October 2013," one of the women told Mail Today.

She broke down during the trial at a city court and revealed the truth.

"I disclosed all the facts before the judge. Later, the judge exonerated them and asked the Delhi Police to investigate the matter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2656609/False-rape-cases-soar-Capital-number-acquittals-hits-78-cent.html
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:46 pm
@nononono,
Quote:
5 Things More Likely To Happen To You Than Being Falsely Accused Of Rape
by charlesclymer

1 in 4 women will be raped or sexually-assaulted in her lifetime, but instead of working on solutions to this problem that effects everyone, some folks like to derail the conversation by claiming false rape accusations are widespread. And because it’s such a sensational thought, women are often accused of lying when they come forward about their rape or sexual assault. But using statistics from the FBI and Department of Justice, it’s estimated that on an annual basis, the odds of the average straight man (the target group overwhelmingly concerned with this) in the U.S. being accused of rape are 2.7 million to 1. To put that in perspective, here are five things more likely to happen to you than being falsely accused of rape.

1. 5x as Likely to Win $10,000 in the Powerball Lottery (1 in 648,975.96)

Okay, not quite 5x as likely but close. If you’re a man who is fearful of the odds of coming across a woman who will accuse you of rape, consider that buying just one lottery ticket a year gets you closer to winning $10,000 than you’ll ever be in danger of the former.

2. 750x Times More Likely to Die From Alcohol Poisoning (1 in 3,598.05)

The Center for Disease Control estimates there are 88,000 annual deaths from alcohol poisoning. Based on our projected current population of 314 million, the odds of dying from a way-too-fun night dramatically outweigh the odds of being falsely accused of rape.

3. 11x More Likely to Be Killed by Asteroid or Comet (1 in 250,000)

Think a big hunk of space rock isn’t likely to kill you? You’re probably right, but that’s far more likely to happen than being falsely accused of rape. According to Prof. Stephen A. Nelson of Tulane University, you stand a 1 in 250,000 chance (lower limit: 1 in 3,000) of being killed by an asteroid or comet.

4. 631x More Likely to Become an NFL Player (1 in 4,278.06)

Yes, you are more likely to play professional football than be falsely accused of rape. In 2013, there were 254 individuals selected in the NFL Draft and 1,086,627 boys played 11-man football in the US. Those numbers have been, more or less, similar for the past decade.

5. Men 82,000x More Likely to Be Raped (1 in 33)

We end on a serious note. Because 1 in 33 men will be raped in his lifetime, men are 82,000x more likely to be raped than falsely accused of rape. It seems many of us would do well to pay more attention to how rape culture affects us all than be paranoid about false accusers.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/charlesclymer/5-things-more-likely-to-happen-to-you-than-being-f-fmeu
nononono
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:50 pm
@firefly,
Exclusive: Brown University Student Speaks Out on What It’s Like to Be Accused of Rape

In April, Daniel Kopin was publicly accused of sexually assaulting his classmate. For the first time, he tells his side of the story.
“We were friends.”

Over the course of a nearly two-hour conversation, Daniel Kopin returns to this point again and again. Ten months after an evening that irrevocably changed two young people’s lives, Kopin, a 21-year-old former Brown University student, still sounds genuinely shaken as he recounts his reaction to an August 8 email that confronted him with a stark accusation: “Dan, you raped me.”

Stories like these are currently at the center of an intense national campaign, unfolding in the media and on the political stage, to publicize and combat the problem of campus sexual assault. In the past two years, dozens of young women have come forward with shattering accounts of being abused both by their assailants and by indifferent or unsympathetic school administrators—and, more and more often, with federal civil rights lawsuits against the institutions. The alleged perpetrators in these accounts nearly always remain shadowy figures, their names protected by anonymity and their version of the events unknown. In a rare exception, Kopin decided to speak with The Daily Beast.

“I was in shock—total disbelief,” Kopin says, growing visibly agitated as he recalls reading the email. “I couldn’t—I mean, I called my mom. Being accused—something must be wrong, something must be off. That was my initial thought. But it became clear, as I looked over my facts, the text messages I had—as I racked my memory—it became clear that this was not true. What she was saying was not true.”

Both Sclove and Kopin agree on one startling detail: that at some point during sex, Sclove began to cry.
Kopin, the accused man in one such story that has recently made headlines—that of Brown student Lena Sclove—did not volunteer to go public. The decision was made for him by the student newspaper, The Brown Daily Herald, which identified him in an April 23 article detailing Sclove’s charge that the university had mishandled her sexual assault complaint. (Kopin, found responsible for “sexual misconduct” involving non-consensual sexual activity after an October 11 hearing, was suspended for a year and was set to resume classes next fall.) Publications like Slate and Salon picked up the story the next day with the shocking claim that Brown was allowing a rapist who had choked his victim to return to campus after a one-year suspension. In a May 6 appearance on MSNBC, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), who has championed the cause of sexual assault survivors on campus, said that Sclove was not only “brutally raped” but “nearly choked to death”; while she did not name Kopin on the air, she asserted that “he should be in jail, not with a one-year suspension.” (While Sclove made a police report seven months after the incident, no criminal charges were ever filed against Kopin.)

By the time Sen. Gillibrand expressed her dismay that Sclove would have to attend classes with her attacker on campus, Kopin had already decided to withdraw from Brown, faced with a blitz of negative publicity as well as campus protests. He was still reluctant to speak to the media, though providing a statement quoted in an earlier article in The Daily Beast. At the end of May, however, Kopin and his parents, Alan and Elizabeth Kopin, agreed to an interview with The Daily Beast in the downtown Boston office of a communications specialist who has been the family’s informal advisor. They also provided the full record of documents from the disciplinary hearing. Together, these documents and narratives paint a picture that illustrates the daunting, wrenching complexity of sexual assault cases involving people who know each other well and may have a sexual history together—cases that often involve emotional ambivalence, mixed signals, and radically different claims about what are supposed to be shared events.


* * *

One irony of this particular story is that Kopin and Sclove share a common background of progressive activism—an interest that helped form a bond between them after both transferred to Brown in January 2013 (Kopin from NYU, Sclove from Tufts). Kopin, the younger of two sons of physician parents, attended the Rashi School, a Boston-area Jewish school that has a strong social justice orientation; both at home and at school, he was raised in an environment where “believing the victim” in a sexual assault case is a widely shared principle. Today, he speaks earnestly of his gratitude for the support he has received from friends who are “who are a part of this feminist community that I’d like to consider myself a part of.”

A mild-mannered young man with a self-effacing smile and a preppy manner, Kopin sometimes sounds as if he still doesn’t quite believe all of this is real. “I don’t why this is happening,” he says, more than once. “I don’t understand.” He says that, after the night of the alleged assault on August 2, he had no inkling that anything was wrong until receiving Sclove’s email several days later.

On some points, Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts coincide. Both acknowledge that in late July, Kopin told Sclove he wanted to end their sexual relationship, which had started about three weeks earlier, and return to a platonic friendship.

Both acknowledge on August 2, despite this decision, they began flirting at a party, engaged in physical displays of affection, and left the party to go to Kopin’s apartment with the intention of having sex. Both acknowledge that Sclove had an intensely negative reaction when Kopin put his hand on her neck while they were kissing and touching each other in the street. Kopin says that the touch was simply a caress, no different from the way he had touched Sclove before; Sclove has described it as a rough squeeze that was both physically painful and frightening (and led to a spinal injury identified several months later). Both agree that, after Kopin comforted Sclove and she calmed down, they proceeded to go to his place—and that, once they were there and seated on the couch, Sclove told Kopin she did not want to have sex.

At this point, their versions of the events diverge dramatically. Kopin says that he told Sclove he was absolutely fine with her decision and offered to walk her home—but she refused to leave and, moments later, began to kiss him and initiated sex. Sclove acknowledges in her written statement to the disciplinary board that Kopin told her she could go home; however, she writes, “I was far too in shock to walk back alone, but I didn’t want him to walk back with me, remembering what he had done the last time we were walking.”

She claims that Kopin pulled her into his lap, undressed her despite her repeated verbal protests, and had sex with her while she was too shocked, tired, and “fuzzy” from alcohol to push him off. She also says that at some point during the sexual assault, he choked her again. According to Kopin, he put his hand on her neck, in a “gentle manner,” while she was giving him oral sex—at which point she stopped and told him she did not want to be touched that way, and he apologized.

Both Sclove and Kopin agree on one startling detail: that at some point during sex, Sclove began to cry. In her initial statement to the disciplinary board, Sclove wrote that Kopin probably remained unaware of this. In his statement, Kopin wrote that he noticed Sclove was crying and asked if she was all right and if she wanted to stop—to which she responded by kissing him again and continuing to move “energetically” on top of him. (Obviously, it’s a different picture than the one Sclove paints of that evening.) He also reiterated this in our interview: “I asked if everything was okay. We were talking, and she continued to kiss me and was totally fine.” Returning to the subject sometime later, he stressed, “Again, it’s important to point out that I was friends with her. Our conversation that night—in essence, the core for me is that it was a back and forth.”

In her second statement to the panel, in response to Kopin’s account, Sclove seemed to acknowledge that Kopin asked her at that point if she would like to stop; but she insisted that, far from being on top of him, she was pinned underneath him and was “simply not responding.” In the same statement, she admitted that she asked Kopin to get a condom and agreed to perform oral sex—but claimed that she did so only because Kopin seemed intent on having sex with her and these seemed to be the least “horrible” of her options at the time. Kopin, meanwhile, has consistently claimed that Sclove initiated the oral sex and told him she wanted to be on top of him during intercourse.

What is not in dispute is that shortly afterward, Kopin’s three housemates got home, heard sounds indicating a sexual encounter in progress, and knocked on the door to give Kopin and Sclove the opportunity to make themselves decent. The two grabbed their clothes and ran up the stairs to Kopin’s bedroom, where Sclove made it clear that she did not want to continue. She got dressed and left.

Sclove was, at the absolute least, ambivalent; even Kopin acknowledges that. Yet he is also adamant that, despite these moments of hesitation, she clearly demonstrated her consent with no coercion or pressure on his part—and indeed initiated much of the sexual activity. A couple of times during our conversation, he admits that having sex under those circumstances was probably not a good idea: “I’m responsible for that.”

Kopin also claims that a similar pattern of mixed signals was present at the start of their brief sexual relationship: he says that while out for a walk together, they acknowledged their mutual attraction, whereupon Sclove said she wanted to be just friends—but quickly proceeded to kiss him and then initiated sexual contact after they got in his car. This is partly corroborated by two of Kopin’s housemates, who testified before the disciplinary panel in his support. One wrote, “I recall Dan being quite startled recalling this story, as Lena’s physical action conflicted with her words.”

All three of Kopin’s housemates, two men and one woman—the closest there could be to eyewitnesses in this case—provide a further accounting of the events of August 2. They testified that Sclove did not seem frightened or disoriented when she came back downstairs after getting dressed. One reported that “she seemed very uncomfortable, and made a joke about how it was awkward, and we assured her that it was fine. She said she didn’t want us to think of her as ‘that girl.’” Another wrote that Sclove asked them not to tell their other friends that she and Kopin had been together “because she wanted to tell them herself.” The third recalled her smiling.

Also on the record was a text message Sclove sent Kopin after leaving his house, which made no reference to sexual assault but asked him to retrieve her underwear which was still on the couch (“Please find it before they do”).

Kopin’s advisor during the investigation and the hearing was the campus director of dining services, who he says had little knowledge of the disciplinary process.
However, what is also clear from the record is that by the next day—Saturday, August 3—Sclove was already distraught about the incident. Kopin has suggested that Sclove’s therapist encouraged her to see it as a sexual assault (based on her comment in the August 8 email, “I have seen my therapist twice, and she is 100 percent sure that this was rape”). Yet two of Sclove’s friends whom she contacted over the weekend, before seeing her therapist on Monday, confirmed in their statements to the panel that she told them she had been raped.

The record is also decidedly muddled on the key issue of Kopin’s alleged choking of Sclove. One of the friends in whom she confided that weekend wrote that, by Sclove’s account, Kopin “pushed her against a telephone pole” while they were kissing in the street and “put his hand on her upper chest/neck; however Lena felt like she was being strangled and got very freaked out.” The other corroborating witness recalled Sclove saying that Kopin “grabbed her neck” and wrote, “When she said it I looked at her neck and saw the faintest hint of a bruise.”

In a May 2 interview with Amy Goodman on the Democracy Now radio show, Sclove said that her friend “saw the bruises on my neck and said, ‘You need to go to the emergency room’”; however, the friend’s written statement indicates that the suggestion to go to the emergency room was in response to Sclove’s general distress and her story of being raped.

In the August 8 email to Kopin, Sclove did not mention choking, referring to the neck touching as “You crossed a boundary for me.” She also mentioned another detail that never came up during the hearing or in any of the press accounts: that because of the touching, she was “triggered about [her] experience with sexual harassment that week.” This mysterious second incident is described by Kopin from Sclove’s account, and confirmed by a statement from one of Sclove’s own character witnesses: Sclove had recently agreed to go out for coffee with an adult student in an “English for Action” (English as a second language) class she was teaching, after repeatedly turning down his earlier requests for a date. What happened between her and the adult student is unclear, but according to her friend’s statement “she immediately felt uncomfortable with him and shared her frustration with the fact that he was not respecting her no.” Kopin recalls Sclove telling him that she was “afraid to be in Providence” because of the experience.

At the April 22 rally that led to Kopin’s “outing” by the Brown Daily Herald, Sclove asserted that a second woman had submitted a statement to the panel about being sexually assaulted by Kopin—a claim the Herald repeated. That statement is part of the record, though it was ultimately not admitted into the evidence. But, far from alleging sexual assault, the second woman’s testimony explicitly notes, in describing her hook-up with Kopin in February 2013, “It was consensual—in fact, he asked if he could kiss me.”

The woman also wrote that she voluntarily took off most of her clothes and that, while she almost immediately began to regret the encounter, she never told Kopin she wanted to stop. Her grievance against him boiled down to the claim that he “moved [her] body around into whatever positions he felt best in” and seemed interested only in his own pleasure, and that he pushed her head down too forcefully while she was giving him oral sex, causing her to stop and tell him that “that was rude.” Kopin, who disputes parts of this account, comments, “It was very strange to me to see a letter which basically says that I’m a jerk.”

* * *

To say that nobody knows what really happened that night on August 2 except for the two people involved is a cliché; but it also fairly sums up what can be gleaned about this case from the available evidence. The discrepancies between Sclove’s and Kopin’s accounts seem too great to be explained by differences in subjective perception. Is it possible that Sclove felt pressured or intimidated in ways Kopin did not notice or understand? Perhaps. Is it possible that her bad experience with her adult student fatefully colored her perceptions of her interaction with Kopin? That’s the explanation favored by Kopin’s mother, Elizabeth Kopin, who says that as an ob-gyn with over thirty years of practice (she retired last year, due partly to her health issues caused by multiple sclerosis), she has “a painful awareness of what women who are assaulted go through.”

One can certainly argue that even if Kopin’s account is entirely true, he should have been more sensitive to Sclove’s fragile state—especially in view of his earnest protestations that their interaction that night took place “within the context of our friendship”—and should not have pursued what he describes as “a passionate hookup” under the circumstances, even if she mostly initiated it herself. But if Kopin’s account is right, and he acted like a bit of a dolt, that doesn’t add up to “non-consensual sex” for which Kopin was found responsible by the Brown disciplinary panel, let alone to the brutal rape of which he stands convicted in the court of public opinion.

Kopin recalls that, shortly after he was notified of Sclove’s formal charges on August 20, he and his parents went to talk to a Brown official who told them that he would be suspended and that his life would never be the same. “I did not want to believe it,” he says. “But they were right.”

The disciplinary process, he says, was heavily stacked against him. Brown assesses sexual misconduct charges under a “preponderance of the evidence” standard—the lowest legal burden of proof. Theoretically, this means that fact-finders must find in favor of the complainant if they believe it’s even slightly more likely than not that the offense occurred; in practice, many say, it means a great deal of guesswork. That’s the standard by which the federal government has directed schools to judge such complaints ever since a 2011 “Dear Colleague” letter to college and university presidents, a precept reiterated in subsequent documents from the Department of the Justice and the Department of Education. (Until then, most schools had used the much higher “clear and convincing evidence” standard.)

“I think the panel just took everything Lena said as gospel,” Kopin says. Perhaps. But what’s indisputable is that Brown’s justice system bears little resemblance to a traditional court. Kopin’s advisor during the investigation and the hearing was the campus director of dining services, who he says had little knowledge of the disciplinary process. Criminal defense and civil rights attorney Harvey Silverglate, who was retained by the Kopins but was barred from any role in the campus disciplinary process, says in an email, “Dan, because factually innocent of everything except some bad judgment, was suspended for ‘only’ one year, which quite often in today’s academic environment is the penalty for the innocent.”

The Kopins say they remain strongly supportive of the goal of a more effective response to sexual assault. Yet Liz Kopin, who says that talking to her son about Sclove’s charges was “the most painful conversation I could ever imagine,” also acknowledges that the experience has changed the way she views sexual assault allegations. “To have someone misconstrue a situation, perhaps because of a prior assault or abuse, and then make an accusation in such a process where she can destroy a young man’s life—stunning,” she says. “I never, ever would have expected this.”

Even as the White House and Congress step up the pressure on colleges to get even tougher on accused offenders, a backlash is already brewing. In the past several years, there have been more than 20 lawsuits against colleges by male students claiming wrongful expulsion or other damage due to what they claim were false accusations of sexual assault. (As it happens, one of the earliest lawsuits of this sort, in 1996, was against Brown.)

In many ways, the current system of campus trials—in which claims of sexual assault are investigated by gender equity bureaucrats with no background in criminal justice and judged by professors, students, deans, and campus activists, with no clear rules of evidence or protections for the participants—does a grave disservice to both the wrongly accused and to victims who are misleadingly promised a friendlier alternative to law enforcement channels. On at least one point, Sen. Gillibrand is right: if Daniel Kopin is a violent rapist and near-strangler, he should be doing time in prison, not getting suspended or even expelled (the toughest disciplinary sanctions still leave a rapist free to find other victims off-campus). If he is innocent, he has been effectively branded a criminal without any of the safeguards normally accorded to criminal defendants. In the end, nobody wins.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/08/exclusive-brown-university-student-speaks-out-on-what-it-s-like-to-be-accused-of-rape.html
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Jul, 2014 11:56 pm
@firefly,
1st) Buzzfeed is ridiculous.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/joeveix/the-top-10-dumbest-buzzfeed-lists-youre-embarrass-c3sp

2nd) This is from WAAAAAYYYY back in January. Seems kinda "Old" to me!

Wanna keep going firefly?

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 12:10 am
@nononono,
I hope you are aware that no one in that Brown University case is accusing the female complainant of making a deliberately false accusation.

Quote:
Buzzfeed is ridiculous

It puts the issue in its proper perspective--which is more than you seem able to do.

The people most likely to be accused of rape are those who have committed it---92%--98% of rape reports do not involve false allegations.



0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 12:19 am
The Oxford Union case shows why we need anonymity for men accused of rape

Earlier this year, Nigel Evans discussed in The Spectator how there’s no way to live down a rape allegation, true or not. Yesterday Ben Sullivan, the President of the Oxford Union, had the rape charges against him dropped.

As I came into Parliament last Thursday, I swung by the newspaper stand to take a brief look at the headlines. ‘Oxford Union president, 21, arrested on suspicion of rape and attempted rape,’ said one. My heart sank. A photo of the beaming Oxford Union president, Ben Sullivan, dominated the front page in his swanky dinner jacket. He looked as if he had the world before him — until, that is, the police knocked on his door, warrant in hand. ‘Are you Ben Sullivan?’ they would have asked. The long, lonely journey to the police station would have followed, leading him in the opposite direction to his ambitions.

I should know. A similar journey took me from my home to Preston police station in the early hours of 4 May last year. I could guess exactly what Ben was feeling. He was released without charge on police bail — but even if this goes no further, his name is now indelibly linked to rape. Anyone who searched online for him will find these lurid accusations immediately — but struggle to find out that he was released without charge.

There was another story in the papers recently, a ‘before and after’ photo of Freddie Starr. The comedian looked a broken man. He had been arrested four times by the Jimmy Savile squad, as part of so-called Operation Yewtree. It took two years for the Crown Prosecution Service to conclude that there was ‘insufficient evidence’ to warrant his prosecution. He was, in theory, free. But the whole affair had kept him in a virtual prison, the same one to which I was confined in the last year. He may have been given back his freedom, but the ordeal has cost him his health — as it cost me my career.

Some young men who are wrongly accused try to take on new identities and rebuild their lives. This is what happened to Peter Bacon, falsely accused of rape after a one-night stand. It took a jury just 45 minutes to acquit him. ‘A load of doors are closed to me because of this,’ he said, ‘even though I’ve done nothing wrong.’ He decided to change his name by deed poll and emigrate. A rather extreme reaction, but having been through the experience I can understand it. I spoke to the comedian Jim Davidson during my days under this hateful suspicion, and he told me, ‘I know where you are. Every time you are not doing something else you are thinking of this,’ and he was right. In the darker and most lonely moments, the mind turns to even more drastic measures.

The allegations against me surfaced over a bank holiday. A news vacuum rewarded me with eight minutes every half hour on Sky that Sunday. The newspapers diligently pored over as much fine detail as was available. One old university friend informed me that I even made page two of his Vietnamese daily. The only thing not given publicity was the name of those alleging criminal activity. Since 1976 the complainants have been given lifetime anonymity — which was intended to grant accusers the same anonymity given to the accused. That was, alas, repealed in 1988.

In theory, police do not name the individuals concerned. On the record, it’s always ‘a 72-year-old man’ who is arrested — but the press is given the nod, so that the public is in no doubt who’s in the dock. The likes of Freddie Starr, Jimmy Tarbuck and Matthew Kelly are thrown to the wolves, even if, as in all three of those cases, no prosecution is pursued. As with them, so with many other less famous men who are wrongly accused — yet, in this digital age, find themselves permanently linked to heinous crimes.

The solution is obvious: anonymity for those accused of rape, not just the accusers. This sensible plan was even in the original coalition agreement in 2010: the two parties agreed to ‘extend anonymity in rape cases to defendants’. But this was dropped (it later emerged that, in the heat of the negotiations, both the Tories and the Liberal Democrats believed it was the other’s idea). It hardly amounts to censorship: the law, as it stands now, virtually prohibits any robust discussion of cases once arrests have been made, even terrorist plots. This is observed even in the digital age. So why not extend this? It would stop people’s lives being ruined.

One answer is that having the accused’s name plastered all over the press will encourage victims to come forward. This happened in the case of the ‘black cab rapist’, John Worboys. After he was first arrested six years ago, several more women came forward to disclose that he had attacked them. I certainly see the benefit of this — there is a case for waiving anonymity when a suspect is charged. But not when they are arrested but released without charge, as the president of the Oxford Union has been.

Five years ago, the Labour government asked Baroness Stern to conduct a review into the treatment of rape complaints. The case for defendants’ anonymity, she said, needed further debate. A few months (and a new government) later and more debate was promised by Sir George Young, the Leader of the House. Lives were being wrecked by rape complaints, he said, and government would conduct a ‘sensitive analysis of the options and implications before we bring any proposals to Parliament’. No proposals came forward.

It is time, surely, to debate this properly. Several options can be investigated — from anonymity until charge to until trial or even until conviction. I am fully aware of the downsides to this, but I have tasted the bitterness of publicity and believe that it should be accorded an equal weight of recognition.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/06/the-oxford-union-case-shows-why-we-need-anonymity-for-men-accused-of-rape/
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 10:54 am
Quote:
Prosecutor: Christian radio host admitted rape
June 23, 2014

BATTLE CREEK, Mich. — A former host on a Christian radio station who was arrested on first-degree criminal sex charges involving children, admitted to raping a 12-year-old boy, the Calhoun County, Mich., prosecutor said Monday.

John Balyo, 35, of Caledonia, Mich., is accused of paying another man to arrange sex with underage boys.

Balyo was ordered Monday to be held without bond after prosecutor David Gilbert said Balyo made incriminating statements to investigators.

"The defendant did make admissions to count one of the complaint," Gilbert told Calhoun County District Court Magistrate David Heiss during Balyo's arraignment.

In addition to the first-degree criminal sexual conduct charge — which is a penetration offense — Balyo also is charged with one count of second-degree criminal sexual conduct — a touching offense. Battle Creek, Mich., police have alleged he had a sexual encounter with a 12-year-old boy in Battle Creek on May 17.

Balyo, the former host of a program on WCSG-FM, a Christian radio station associated with Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids, Mich., was arrested Friday at a Christian music event.

Earlier Monday, WCSG General Manager Chris Lemke addressed the scandal on-air:

"The WCSG family was shocked and saddened to learn WCSG Morning Show host,

John Balyo was arrested amid allegations which have since then been much publicized," said Lemke. "On Saturday, WCSG and Cornerstone University ended its affiliation with John."

Immediately after his arrest, WCSG executives placed Balyo on paid administrative leave. But within 24 hours, the station had severed ties with the troubled DJ.

In his comments, Lemke attempted to do more damage control.

"I want you, our radio family, to know that more than ever WCSG exists to serve as a Christ centered influence through compelling content, relevant platforms and passionate relationships," Lemke said. "Our vision is to be an encouraging and engaging media influence for Christ and his church, his kingdom and you here in West Michigan and around the world."

Lemke reminded his Christian audience that "absolutely no one is immune from falling into the darkness of sin." He then prayed that any broken trust be restored.

Balyo was arrested as part of a joint investigation by the Battle Creek Police Department, the Michigan State Police and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Federal investigators say Balyo's was arrest was part of a larger effort, called "Operation Predator," that has a goal of protecting children from sexual predators.

A spokesman for ICE, Khaalid Walls, said Monday that the federal investigation is continuing but no charges have been sought. Officials searched Balyo's house and car Friday and Walls said Monday additional search warrants were executed, including one for a rented storage facility.

Balyo was questioned for about 2½ hours Friday in Grand Rapids after his arrest and before he was brought to Battle Creek and the county jail.

His arrest is linked to the case against Ronald Moser, 42, of Battle Creek. Moser was arrested in early June and is charged in U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids with manufacturing and possessing child pornography.

Walls said Friday the allegation is that Balyo paid Moser to arrange sexual encounters with minor children.

Detective Sgt. Jim Martens said both sexual assault charges against Balyo involved the same boy on the same day. Gilbert declined to comment on whether investigators believe other victims are in the county.

If convicted of the charges, Balyo faces up to life in prison, Heiss said. A preliminary examination of the charges is scheduled for July 7, he said.

Although preliminary bail was set over the weekend at $500,000, the magistrate said after hearing from Gilbert about the admissions, Balyo would be held without bail "because the proof of the defendant's guilt is evident."
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/23/christian-radio-host-sex-case/11286327/
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 02:10 pm
@nononono,
The state claims that they need to try to drum up more victims before the first trial in order to get a conviction as often as possible, but this is a lousy excuse even if true because each alleged wrong act is subject to is own charges, and each charge needs to stand on its own. The real reason the feminist/state cooperative does it is to send the message to all men that " this too could be you one day if your woman turns against you....so you had better keep her happy!" What remains of the 4th estate dutily plays along being the PR machine for the cooperative rather than doing what they should be doing, which is decrying the abuse of the citizens at the hand of the state.

I find it very interesting that the cooperative has pretty much made it binding law that the one who takes the victim label can not have prior acts allowed in at trial, but the cooperative goes out of its way to find and then use alleged prior bad acts of the one they have called abuser against them. So much for any notion that this government is interested in justice.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 02:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The state claims that they need to try to drum up more victims before the first trial in order to get a conviction as often as possible, but this is a lousy excuse even if true because each alleged wrong act is subject to is own charges, and each charge needs to stand on its own.

The state is well aware, that, particularly in cases of sexual assault/rape, there may be other victims who have not yet come forward, because these crimes tend to be repeated offenses. And, once charges have been lodged, if other victims then come forward, the accused may be separately charged in those cases as well, so they can be held accountable for all such crimes.
Quote:
The real reason the feminist/state cooperative does it is to send the message to all men that " this too could be you one day if your woman turns against you....so you had better keep her happy!"

Now all D.A.'s offices are part of this murky nefarious "feminist/state cooperative" you can't even prove exists? Laughing That's the paranoid message you hear, because you are so fearful of women, and so resentful of the fact that sexual assault laws better protect them than was the case 20 or 30 years ago.
http://www.howardforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84281&d=1345911106
Try decrying the sexual abuse of men, women, and children, rather than bemoaning the fact that the state justifiably tries to hold sexual predators responsible for their actions.
Quote:

I find it very interesting that the cooperative has pretty much made it binding law that the one who takes the victim label can not have prior acts allowed in at trial, but the cooperative goes out of its way to find and then use alleged prior bad acts of the one they have called abuser against them.

What's more interesting is your poor understanding of the law. The victim isn't the one on trial, and the victim's past behavior is not relevant in determining whether the defendant has violated the law. It is the state, not the victim, who is the accuser at trial. The victim is only a witness.

If one of Bernie Madoff's victims had been defrauded by someone in the past, other than Madoff, how would that have any bearing on whether Madoff also defrauded them?

And prior "bad acts" by the defendant are only admissible if they demonstrate a clear pattern of behavior related to the specific charges being adjudicated at trial. Should Madoff have been tried for only defrauding one victim, or should he have been held accountable for all acts of fraud he committed?

You fail to understand that sexual assault/rape trials are conducted in a manner similar to all other trials.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 02:48 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The state is well aware, that, particularly in cases of sexual assault/rape, there may be other victims who have not yet come forward, because these crimes tend to be repeated offenses. And, once charges have been lodged, if other victims then come forward, the accused may be separately charged in those cases as well, so they can be held accountable for all such crimes
Great, so when and if the state gets a conviction then they should do that.

Quote:
state justifiably tries to hold sexual predators responsible for their actions.
I would be shocked it the feminist/state cooperative sex law net contains more than 10% predators. We should have some studies conducted on who these citizens are.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I would be shocked it the feminist/state cooperative sex law net contains more than 10% predators. We should have some studies conducted on who these citizens are.

The research has already been posted in this thread--several times, fairly recently. The self-admitted male predators, who remain undetected in the population, comprise only about 6%-8% of the total population. But each of those predators commits an average of 6 rapes each, by their own admission. The repeat offenses are what drive the sexual assault/rape numbers up.

It's not women, Hawkeye, it's the rapists and sexual predators, mostly male, who cause other men to be regarded with suspicion. But, instead of viewing them as the enemy, you make excuses for them, and bemoan their fate when the state accuses them, and/or convicts them for their crimes. You never stop sniveling about how they are the ones "abused" by the state.

Still at it with the "feminist/state cooperative"--even though you can't even name 5 prominent feminists who are the leaders in that alleged cooperative endeavor. Laughing

http://mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Are you quite sure Martians aren't also involved in the conspiracy ? Laughing



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:14 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
The research has already been posted in this thread--several times, fairly recently. The self-admitted male predators, who remain undetected in the population, comprise only about 6%-8% of the total population. But each of those predators commits an average of 6 rapes each


Your comprehension skills are lacking today...the question is of those nabbed for sex crimes what portion can be labeled predators, as opposed for instance to guys who were only trying to have a good time but got tripped up because the state did not approve of the consent? Or guys who did a one time stupid thing? Or guys who were so drunk or stoned that they had pretty much no intent at all?

I am sure that your have a firefly personal definition of predator, but to most of the rest of us it is one who habitually and with intent preys upon others. I doubt that of those who go afoul of the law of the feminist/state cooperative more than 10% are predators. The rest are unlucky stiffs, many of whom the only real crime they did was being born men.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 03:46 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Your comprehension skills are lacking today...the question is of those nabbed for sex crimes what portion can be labeled predators, as opposed for instance to guys who were only trying to have a good time but got tripped up because the state did not approve of the consent?

Your comprehension skills are lacking...

Guys "who were only trying to have a good time but got tripped up because the state did not approve of the consent"--is also the definition of rape--sexual intercourse without consent. "Getting tripped up"=getting caught for violating the law.

Someone has no right to "have a good time" with another person who either does not want the sexual contact, or is unable to resist such contact, or who is not considered competent to consent. People who rape the elderly in their nursing home beds, or who rape incapacitated individuals, or those too young to consent, "were only trying to have a good time" and get some sex too--they just chose to ignore the law.
Quote:
Or guys who did a one time stupid thing?

Rape isn't a "stupid thing"--it's a felony crime. And just because they've done it only once, or have been caught only once, doesn't make it any less serious a violation of law.
Quote:
Or guys who were so drunk or stoned that they had pretty much no intent at all?

Being drunk or stoned is not considered an adequate defense for any crime.
Quote:
I am sure that your have a firefly personal definition of predator, but to must of the rest of us it is one who habitually and with intent preys upon others

It doesn't necessarily have to be habitual, although it often is, but it is someone who intentionally preys on others, particularly the most vulnerable and available to them.

And the research on self-admitted undetected rapists indicates that, in about 70% of their rapes, they knowingly have sex with severely intoxicated individuals, even though those individuals have indicated the sex was unwanted, or they were too incapacitated to resist. That almost completely invalidates the myth that these rapes were just "accidents" or the result of "consensual drunken sex" or some sort of "misunderstanding about consent". These are most often premeditated crimes, carried out when alcohol has acted as a facilitator, to render the victim more vulnerable to such an assault.

Stop pretending that men are too dumb to understand the sexual assault/rape laws, and they therefore get "tripped up" by them. Anyone who engages in sexual contact should be sure they clearly understand the laws, just as one must understand the traffic laws before they drive a car.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 04:46 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Guys "who were only trying to have a good time but got tripped up because the state did not approve of the consent"--is also the definition of rape--sexual intercourse without consent. "Getting tripped up"=getting caught for violating the law.
That does not mean they are predators, but if I know you every person the state convicts is a predator, the word is like "rape", so vastly expanded in definition to be nearly useless.

Quote:
Stop pretending that men are too dumb to understand the sexual assault/rape laws,
Vague laws mean what ever the state says they do, and that is a problem. But ya, there is little consensus in this nation as to what proper consent is, or of what the state thinks proper consent is.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jul, 2014 05:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The rest are unlucky stiffs, many of whom the only real crime they did was being born men.


An was unlucky enough to run into young women who had taken one too many feminist studies course where it is taught that women have no duty or obligations to act in a reasonable manner in sexual relationships so it anything go wrong it must be due to a male sexual predator.
0 Replies
 
 

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