Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

Some men make all sorts of false allegations--and pressure victims and their families--particularly when they are trying to avoid rape charges.

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Man tried to discredit rape victim, court hears
27th January 2011

A court heard yesterday how a man accused of raping a 12-year-old girl systematically tried to discredit the family's claim before being formally charged.

Former jockey David John Frethey, 55, now a sickness beneficiary, pleaded not guilty in the Napier District Court on Monday to nine charges of rape, sexual and physical assault involving the girl when she was aged between six and 14 years, and eight counts of trying to pervert the course of justice.

Yesterday the court heard how Frethey allegedly asked family friends to perform tasks for him he believed would discredit the girl's claims he had raped and abused her, focusing the blame on the mother's partner.

A letter sent on Frethey's instruction, by a relative, to the mother, proposing to be from an anonymous hospital staff member, reads, "I have known some sluts in my life but you and you (sic) daughter take the cake. You are both mentally deranged. Most of the staff at work know what you are like."

Under cross-examination the relative said she had agreed to write the letter because "he explained to me that they were a family who were out to get him and he wanted it to stop".

It is alleged Frethey hand-delivered a letter to the mother's partner he was jealous of, which read "no texting, no phone calls, stay away from those people at [address] or we will get you arrested for raping [the mother]."

He also allegedly gave his ex daughter-in-law written instructions to phone Child Youth and Family Services (CYFS) and fake concern for the girl's newly born baby, claiming the mother's partner was the father and the baby a product of rape, and that the mother beat her and the girl would often run away and stay on the street.

He paid her $30 for the effort.

It is also alleged he made an effort to contact the girl and had called her from various numbers, at times just breathing down the phone.

The court also heard from Frethey's doctor, who confirmed he had never been diagnosed with cancer, as he had claimed.

The trial is expected to last the week.
http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/local/news/man-tried-to-discredit-rape-victim-court-hears/3938389/

2 Replies

@firefly,

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I've posted a great many of those cases.

Lying once more dear heart shame on you.

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@firefly,

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Fine. That should mean that you accept the "No means no" date rape laws as indicative of "real rape".

I do

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Sexual assault is no more a transaction than theft is a transaction. Again, you confuse sexual relations with sexual assault. The difference between offering, or giving, your body to someone, and having your body violated, or assaulted, is a matter of consent. Just as the difference between giving your property to someone, or having it taken, or stolen, from you is a matter of consent. There is no difference.

you make the sexual transgression criminal when consent is not to the level demanded by the law...according to you all such cases are sexual assault. You of course completely destroy the word "assault" in the process but that is nothing new to you. You like how we all think that we know what assault means and we think it is a bad thing but now that it has been redefined it does not mean much of anything at all. Word games you are good at, honesty not so much.

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And both men, and women, have the right to protect their bodies from unwanted types of sexual contacts.

and they also have obligations, such as taking care of themselves and being honest and clear with those whom they are interacting with...but you dont want to talk about the obligations that go with rights now do you..

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No, men are simply responsible for making sure that their own behavior is within the boundaries of the law--they are responsible for making sure they have lawful consent

only if the law is just and reasonable, which as you know damn well I claim it is not. In this case there is no responsibility to follow the law. There is however a responsibility to try to get the law changed, to speak out against it.

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Really? Are you not familiar with breach of contract suits?

are you daff? If there is no valid contract then there is no break of contract.

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Or suits for damages?

ditto

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The "contract" in sexual activity would be that all acts have to be consensual

if there is much of any level at all of consent I want the state to stay the **** out of peoples business...correct. The state has no right to demand obscene levels of consent to complete a legal sex act. The state is WAY out of line here.

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You don't want to accept any restrictions on your sexual activity imposed by anyone.

It is between me and the woman that I am with, unless she lets me know that she is not consenting to what I am doing to her, unless she tells me to stop. If I dont stop then maybe I am a rapist, otherwise I have done nothing wrong and neither you nor the state has any standing to tell me that I have.

1 Reply

@firefly,

You know Firefly if the state wish to charge a man in a dating situation with sexual assault for having non-force sex due to the alcohol/drugs consent issues and it can be shown that the male was at least equally under the influence logic and fairness would force the state to charge both of them with the same crime.

They both had have sex with a partner that could not grant "legal" consent at the time.

After all, you keep claiming that the consent issue is gender neutral so let have some trials where both are prosecuted for sexual assaults. Oh right it is only gender neutral for homosexual rape as women can not sexual assault men even drunken men.

Yes, men are all evil sexual predators and women are pure of heart and only poor dumb preys.

Once more the bar to nail a man for having sex with a woman who gotten herself drunk need to be set very high indeed.

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@firefly,

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Some men make all sorts of false allegations

Making up false allegations is no big deal and should only get a slap on the wrist oh **** that slap on the wrist punishment only apply to women and false allegations not men and false allegations.

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@firefly,

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Some men make all sorts of false allegations--and pressure victims and their families

people pressure other people all of the time, our economic system for instance is partly built upon this human behaviour. For instance, my wife is currently pressuring me about the speed at which my honey-do list is getting accomplished. You seem to live in some alternate reality where it is possible for humans to never pressure each other if the law is applied often enough and vigorously enough.It reminds me of the claim that power could be taken out of relationships in the same way.

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@hawkeye10,

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you make the sexual transgression criminal when consent is not to the level demanded by the law...according to you all such cases are sexual assault

No, I don't make the sexual transgression criminal--the law defines what is a criminal sexual transgression. And there is no "level of consent"--either you have consent, as defined by the state you live in, or you don't have consent.

The lack of consent is what makes a sexual assault an "assault".

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if there is much of any level at all of consent I want the state to stay the **** out of peoples business...correct. The state has no right to demand obscene levels of consent to complete a legal sex act. The state is WAY out of line here.

What "obscene levels of consent"? The state you live in defines consent as "freely willing knowing agreement?. That's an "obscene level of consent"? Sorry, the state has a right to require that your partner is in willing agreement with what you want to do sexually and that the agreement is given freely and knowingly. There is nothing unreasonable about that. The state is not trying to control your sex life, it is simply defining the crime of rape. Unfortunately, your sexual behaviors may well fall into the rape category, but that's your problem since you are the one choosing to ignore the consent issue.

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only if the law is just and reasonable, which as you know damn well I claim it is not. In this case there is no responsibility to follow the law.

There is nothing unjust or unreasonable about laws which state that sexual intercourse must be consenting. If you feel no responsibility to follow such laws then do not complain about the state being able to arrest you, charge you, try you, and imprison you, because you are knowingly committing rape. Jails and prisons are filled with people who think just the way you do--that the law doesn't apply to them, or feel they could just disregard the law, or who think maybe they won't get caught. Your narcissistic needs for gratification do not trump the law.

As I said before, your values regarding women and sexuality appear to be shaped by pornography and violent pornography and the type of power relationships you seek in your BDSM practices, and your consequent desensentization to rape leaves you apparently unable to appreciate the need for consent, and the legal requirement of consent as a defining aspect of sexual assault. The problem is not in the sexual assault laws, because the laws are straightforward, simple, and clear--and far from unreasonable or unfair--and they put no restrictions on consenting sexual activity. The problem is within you--you just don't like having your sexual behaviors restricted by the need for consent from your partner, and, you resent the whole idea of having to even pay attention to the aspect of consent, or even engage in communication with your partner about her wishes. On that score, I have no sympathy for you at all. You are, at best, a self centered creep, and, at worst, a possible rapist.

In a thread about rape, it makes little sense to me to bother responding to someone who says he feels no responsibility to follow the sexual assault laws. If you choose to behave criminally, you deserve whatever consequences might follow from your choices.

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@firefly,

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No, I don't make the sexual transgression criminal--the law defines what is a criminal sexual transgression. And there is no "level of consent"--either you have consent, as defined by the state you live in, or you don't have consent.

The lack of consent is what makes a sexual assault an "assault".

Consent is not binary nor clear cut. There are lots of levels of consent, most of which are colored grey. The state has chosen to demand a high level of consent, which is unreasonable and oppressive.

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What "obscene levels of consent"? The state you live in defines consent as "freely willing knowing agreement?. That's an "obscene level of consent"?

Yes, this is demanding that the guy make sure that the girl has all of the information as to what will happen, that she knows the ramifications of what will happen, and that she agrees to this without any outside pressure. This is obscene. We need to go back to no means he stops, everything else means that he is legal.

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The problem is not in the sexual assault laws, because the laws are straightforward, simple, and clear--and far from unreasonable or unfair--and they put no restrictions on consenting sexual activity

That is your opinion, for whatever that is worth. I dont agree on every count, as you well know.

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The problem is within you--you just don't like having your sexual behaviors restricted by the need for consent from your partner,

I am not willing to tolerate having my sexual practices regulated by the state, and so long as my partners collaborate with be on the erotic dance without objection no person and no authority has a right to call me a sexual transgressor. To do so makes a mockery of the concept of trangression, and of the concept of the indiviudal

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@firefly,

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In a thread about rape, it makes little sense to me to bother responding to someone who says he feels no responsibility to follow the sexual assault laws. If you choose to behave criminally, you deserve whatever consequences might follow from your choices.

So in the 1850s Firefly you would had been a law abiding citizen and reported run away slaves to the slave catchers as the law then demand?

Just because the slave owners could get a law pass or just because the feminists when no one was watching could get a law pass place no one under a moral obligation to that law.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

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So for some strange reason you are not postings cases of this claims majority of rapes that I would not consider rape.

I've posted a great many of those cases.

Unfortunately, your memory is far from your greatest asset.

And your ability to write coherent sentences is on an equal par.

The key is where this clown said what HE would not consider rape. You cannot talk common sense with someone who is close minded and on the fringe of society.

I suppose he thinks that if he continues to post the same crap hundreds...nay, thousands of times somebody will actually agree with him other than his buddy Hawkeye.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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The key is where this clown said what HE would not consider rape. You cannot talk common sense with someone who is close minded and on the fringe of society.

You are not willing to grant that a man has the right to make up his own mind, and yet you want to pass judgment upon who is on the fringe of society??

THAT's rich!

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Ok....prove me wrong.

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@Intrepid,

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Ok....prove me wrong.

That's easy....Does a woman have the right to her own mind? Better yet, to decide on the use of her ****?

See the problem for you yet?

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@hawkeye10,

Yes she does. However, you seem to limit that to your own agenda and strange fantasies. You have made it clear that you do not think Firefly has a right to her own mind. You make that clear with every ridiculous post that you make in this thread.

BTW. You have not proven anything.

P.S.
Does it make you feel all manly and strong to refer to women's parts in the manner which you do? Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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You have made it clear that you do not think Firefly has a right to her own mind. You make that clear with every ridiculous post that you make in this thread.

Bullshit...find a single quote in the 1000 or so posts of mine in this thread that supports your assertion.

She has every right to her opinions, as I have every right to point out where she has lied and why I think that she is wrong. The one thing that she does not have a right to do if she wants to be taken seriously is to make 1000 posts about rape but to refuse to define the most important and most central term, that being of course "consent".

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

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I have every right to point out where she has lied

Except that I have never lied in this thread, or in any other thread I have posted in.

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The one thing that she does not have a right to do if she wants to be taken seriously is to make 1000 posts about rape but to refuse to define the most important and most central term, that being of course "consent

I have repeatedly said that I accept the definition of "consent" given in the sexual assault laws of the state of Washington.

In fact, I will accept the definition of "consent" given in the sexual assault laws of any state.

We have been been discussing rape laws--not hypothetical laws, but the actual laws which are in effect. Therefore, one must use the definition of "consent" that is appropriate and applicable to those laws, and each state provides a definition of "consent" in the statutes pertaining to sexual assault.

For you to say that I have never defined "consent" is a flat out lie on your part. My definition is the one used by each state--because that is what applies to the sexual assault laws of that state.

Unlike you, I do not make up my own definitions of "rape" and "consent"--I accept the definitions provided by each state.

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@firefly,

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Unlike you, I do not make up my own definitions of "rape" and "consent"--I accept the definitions provided by each state.

Yes, I accept that the law in Iran is that women will be stone to death for cheating on their husbands that does not however means that I agree with that law. I truly accept that is Iran law but I do not agree with it and would have no problem with using deadly force to stop the stoning of some one I care about under that law for example.

In any case, how in the hell can you agree with all fifty states laws even when they different from each others in many important aspects of how they define sexual assault and deal with the consent issue.

That is one hell of a fine example in how dishonest you are in avoiding the issues on this thread.

Oh as far as respecting laws just because they are laws is concern there is a sad and ongoing history of crazy laws that no sane person would respect going back to the founding of the country.

Laws that in fact there is a clear moral duty to break and some fews even a moral duty to resist with force if need be.

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@BillRM,

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Laws that in fact there is a clear moral duty to break

Rape laws do not fall into that category.

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@firefly,

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Rape laws do not fall into that category.

That your opinion however if the laws are use to placed young men in prison for the "crime" of drinking with a date and then having willing sexual intercourse that the woman then later regret using the legal consent issue to turn willing sex into rape then the laws would indeed fall under that category as far as I am concern.

Here is a question for you Firefly.
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Firefly who respects all state and federal sex laws let talk about our current sex laws that would allow the prosecution of an 18 years old man who is legally married to a seventeen-year-old wife and happen to have a nude picture of her in his cell phone.

Now he is facing under current laws a minimum sentence of four years and if she had taken it of herself, she is also facing a four years sentence.

Firefly the respecter of all US sexual laws suppose this young man had forgotten his cell phone in your home and you found this picture of his wife on it.

The law is clear you are now in knowing possession of child porn, the only legal action you can take is to turn it over to the police at once, and to do otherwise is to be looking at a four years sentence yourself.

Guess what Firefly I would not obey that law and more then likely would destroy said phone instead as I do not have the tools to erase it completely off the phone and then return it to him. Telling him, I had no idea what had happen to his phone and I sure hope he does not have any sexual pictures on it for someone else to find in the hope that he would not place another such picture on a replacement phone.

Now what would you do??????????????????????

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@firefly,

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I have repeatedly said that I accept the definition of "consent" given in the sexual assault laws of the state of Washington.

In fact, I will accept the definition of "consent" given in the sexual assault laws of any state.

Law =the statute+how it is interpreted+plus how it is applied+how the judges and juries decide to adjudicate. This is all in massive flux and has been for a long time. When you say that you agree with consent as currently decided by the states you are saying nothing, because there is no current static definition of consent in practice, even with-in a particular state. Different people make different decisions, and the decisions reached last year might not (and often do not) look anything like the decisions reached today.

You are in fact dodging the question and dodging staking a position, and I know damn well why. You might think that you are so much smarter than the rest of us that you can get away with laying out your bullshit and having it accepted as the caviar that you claim that it is, but you are not in fact that much smarter than the rest of us. You are a thug who has learned the ability to play words games well and who tries to pass yourself off as something that you are not, I am on to your deception, and I have no intention of letting you go on with your abusive behaviour and staying silent about it.

2 Replies

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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