The rise and fall of the USA

Timber

I admire your scholary approach to the required perspective.

Phoenix

Those were scary times indeed-------during that confrontation between Kennedy and krushscheve over Cuba-----that was sweat time.

Perception- I was working on 34th St in NYC the day that Khrushchev came to the U.N. He was to ben driven down 34th at noon, just as people were going out of their offices for lunch. There was a big crowd on the street. When his limo came by, there was a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e s-i-l-e-n-c-e.

Into the fray....

There have been a couple of comments made regarding the unique resiliency of US policy allowed by it's constitution. I'm not at all certain that resiliency won't be trumped by other factors.

For example, the EU is presently engaged in far more R and D on alternative energy sources than is the US. If the US continues to tie it's internal and external policies to oil, it could (at least conceivably) find itself in the position of buggy whip manufacturers. Not to mention the pollution pariah of the world. If you intuit from this paragraph that I suspect entrenched economic elites are running the show - and goddamn the constitution if it gets in the way - you would be correct.

On another thread, I mentioned yesterday that the federal government here is about to table legislation banning all political contributions from either unions or corporations, limiting individual contributions, and making all contributions over $200 mandatorily transparent. There is, I'd argue, a policy elasticity available to smaller and less economically established states (such as Canada) which are terrifically difficult to bring about in your country, simply because of the inertia of your power structures, constitution notwithstanding.

How does your Federal government tabling the legislation demonstrate more elasticity? We've already passed such a law (Campaign Finance Reform plus the already existing laws on individual contributions...) and it kicked into effect just last month. Maybe I'm just misreading your paragraph?

But, in my inference at least, we could, at least in theory, have an entire revolution within the confines of our existing Constitution which is very different from the legal and political situations of Ancient Rome, Egypt, The Mayans, Aztecs etc.. We can literally implode and remain as a Federal nation/state.

fishin

No, you aren't misreading. But McCain Feingold is not so limiting and is presently being butchered in the courts, a process guaranteed to continue. And we aren't nearly so beset by the (in my mind) spurious arguments that freedom is speech is jeopardized by campaign finance limitations. (I'll dig up links if you want, but you are well read and likely know this better than I).

I'm having trouble imagining what you do in your last paragraph. Could you toss out some possible scenario here to clarify what you have in mind? Clearly, your situation is more ammenable to vital change than would be a monarchy or theocracy, but home might your situation be of greater advantage than Belgium, say, or France? (Adding here that I appreciate how other states in the Western World have taken cues from America on viable structures for democracy).

Phoenix

I'm just very thankful that someone in the Kremlin was able to remind him just how pragmatic the Soviets really were/are and he was able to get control of his emotions. I can't however discount the possibility that the "bluff" was very carefully staged and executed.

Re the missile crisis...it was sweat time. I clearly recall sitting with my family in front of the TV hanging on Walter Kronkite's every word.

perception

Just a note to say that it is becoming a delight to read your posts these days.

Blatham

Thanks for the kind words----I can just imagine how surprised the other participants are to hear you say that!

I fully believe that this is the beginning of the end. It could be turned around by wise leadership, but this leadership is certainly destroying. There is unprecidented new expenditures of funds for the war machine. The most in the history of mankind, the can not be sustained for long. Another 9/11 or two and the great USA would be in a big hole.

But, I digress on a matter I fear and loath. It will not be a fall as with the 3rd Reich or Rome, we will simply go broke. A year - maybe 2025. Our lack of funding for Social Security and other social failures that are not being address today will be other major contributing factors to our downfall.

Arrogance and the anointing of "ChickenHawks" is bedamning!

I'm sorry to say I'm in complete agreement with Bill W.

I certainly have no faith in our government to fix things, as I don't believe those in charge want to fix things. They merely want to accumulate wealth and power. They will do just fine no matter what happens to our country. These the "patriots" who are concerned about returning honor and power to the USA.

I was using the comparison of the US today vs. the (primarily) Monarchs of the prior societies listed. The US Constitution may provide some slight advantages over some of the European countries based soley on the number of areas covered in them but from my knowledge of them, they currently all have the ability to modify things just as we do. I wasn't comparing the US to other nations currently on the map but those that have disappeared since that was the focus of the thread.

fishin

Gotcha. Thank you.

BillW and Bi-Polar
How would you correct the situation if you were President? There are many issues that demand immediate attention tell us where your priorities are.

Blatham

I might add to my last comment------I'm completely reformed and I owe it all to you "daddy", it was that stern "talking to" that you gave me!

perception

(Looking over top of glasses) Now don't get sassy, young fellow.

My social discourse strategy is to treat others with impeccable manners, therebye gaining their trust. Then, when their guard is down, whack 'em with a brick.

Blatham

Quote: (Looking over the rims of my glasses) Now don't get sassy young man.

Please keep those compliments flowing. Since this thread seems to have died, I invite you to commet on my latest under "Politics"
Regarding apathy by the silent majority

ashes to ashes we all fall down.

sooner rather than later i'm afraid, we're doomed to fall.

perception, first and foremost - build a new government that is beholden to the war lords, oil barons and filthy rich. This is a country of and for the people - not against every thing they stand for. There is a new push being lead by the Wall Street Journal (and therefore will be the new Right Wing Chant) that is basically built around the idea that the lower income Americans are not paying their fair share of taxes. Watch for tax increases in the near future to pay for the Imperial War - Let them eat cake says the Bush Administration, we are safe!

BTW, I don't have the time nor is there enough server space to list all the things I would do differently. For the most part, I would do everything the current unPresident is doing exactly the opposite!