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Wed 1 Aug, 2007 01:57 pm
Obama and the 'They' Sayers
By Eugene Robinson
Tuesday, July 31, 2007; A19
Are white Americans really, truly prepared to elect an African American president? Seriously, is a nation with such a long and shameful history of brutal slavery, Jim Crow segregation and persistent racism actually going to put a black man in the White House?
One of Barack Obama's principal tasks in the coming months may be convincing African American voters that this whole phenomenon -- a black candidate with a well-financed campaign, proven crossover appeal and a real chance to win -- isn't just another cruel illusion.
I hear from African Americans who are excited about Obama's candidacy but who suspect that somehow, when push comes to shove, "they" won't let him win. It's unclear who "they" might be -- white voters, the "power structure," the alignment of the stars -- and it's unclear how "they" are going to thwart Obama's ambition. The point is that, somehow, he'll be denied.
This anecdotal evidence finds some empirical support in the polls, although it's far from definitive. A recent CNN poll of Democrats in South Carolina -- a crucial, early-primary state where African Americans will cast about half the Democratic votes -- showed Hillary Clinton leading Obama by a bigger margin among blacks than among whites. And while white respondents thought Clinton had only a slightly better chance of winning the 2008 general election than Obama, blacks who were polled thought Clinton was fully twice as likely to beat a generic Republican opponent.
The CNN poll's sample of black voters was so small, and its margin of error so great, that it's impossible to draw firm conclusions. For that matter, it would be a mistake to take any of these early polls too seriously. But isn't Obama at least a bit concerned that black voters might succumb to a kind of historical fatalism about how race works in America?
"What I see is a lot of press fascination with a black candidate who does not yet have 100 percent of the African American vote," Obama said yesterday in a telephone interview. "It's fascinating to me that people would expect that somehow I would be getting unanimous black support at this stage of the campaign, when probably only about 50 percent of black voters know much about me at all."
Obama pointed out that "black folks have known the Clintons for a long time." He also noted that when he ran for the U.S. Senate, his poll numbers among African Americans started low but later went stratospheric as voters got to know him.
Still, the Obama campaign recognizes the importance of South Carolina as the first primary state with a substantial African American electorate. A win there could resonate in other states where the black vote will be a key factor in the Democratic primary. A bad loss in South Carolina would resonate, too -- not in a good way, from Obama's point of view.
Last week, the Obama campaign began running a new ad on 36 black-oriented radio stations in South Carolina. Its two themes: "We have more work to do" and "It's Barack Obama time."
Asked about fatalism or resignation among black voters, Obama said, "I'm sure there's some of that going on. The way to solve that problem is to win."
That I reached Obama in the midst of a campaign swing through Iowa was no accident. "If I do well in Iowa, and if I do well in New Hampshire . . . then by the time we get to South Carolina, I think we will have dispelled the notion that somehow whites won't vote for African Americans."
The dispelling of notions seems to be a specialty of Obama's -- or maybe it's just his fate in life. Last week, in his fight with Clinton over whether a president should meet with foreign leaders who are adversaries in addition to those who are friends, Obama dispelled the questionable notion that a politician who learned his craft in rough-and-tumble Chicago, where Marquess of Queensberry rules do not apply, could somehow have failed to learn how to take or deliver a punch.
"That was a fun debate . . . an important, substantive debate," he told me, before sticking in another jab about how " 'experience' means reciting the conventional wisdom in Washington . . . that got us into the Iraq war."
Obama spent weeks dispelling the notion, held by some in the national media, that he somehow isn't "black enough." He still gets asked that question, but by now he has mostly put the matter of his racial identity to rest. As he knew all along, he's black.
Now he has to dispel the notion that because he's black, somehow "they" will slap him down.
eugenerobinson@...
@aaronssongs,
Sure.....I'd vote for a Black candidate. Skin-color isn't the issue. Would you vote for Colin Powell?
@aaronssongs,
there is also a "They" that don't want him elected because he hasn't even served one term in the Senate
I'd vote for Powell, in a heartbeat, and if my guess is right he'll run as VP to Rudy. The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do. Obama's minister has repeatedly made comments about bettering the lives of "Black Americans". That sounds racist if you ask me (Obama knows this and has distanced himself from his Church). How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?
racism is illogical
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28788 wrote:there is also a "They" that don't want him elected because he hasn't even served one term in the Senate
There is a "they", that don't want him elected because he is "black". Get over yourself, trying to pretend that this is a open society, where everyone is equal, and we're all sitting around singing "Kum ba Yah"
I'd vote for Powell, in a heartbeat, and if my guess is right he'll run as VP to Rudy. The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do. Obama's minister has repeatedly made comments about bettering the lives of "Black Americans". That sounds racist if you ask me (Obama knows this and has distanced himself from his Church). How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?
racism is illogical
Powell....Powell? Honorary Uncle Tom Colin Powell.. Seems he got played and pimped by the administration...Massa Bush say, Saddam bad..got WMD...we must attack...they have trailers for biological and chem warfare...see dese cilinders? We have good intel...they are for real..
Destroyed all his credibility in one fell swoop, acting as the errand boy (in Secretary of State clothing)...now he's nothing more than a "whipping boy", and apologist for his airheaded naivete. And the administration is still, actively, trying to discredit him further, now that he is admitting the truth and his reservations.
"The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do." ?????
So easy for you to say that crap, when you're not on the receiving end of any contrived affront. And when you can't operate in society, without it being referenced, subtilely and overtly, daily.
"How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?"
Easy...the "playing field", "still" is not level...no matter how much kool-aid you continue to drink.
racism is, "indeed" illogical, except when you act like it's not
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28788 wrote:there is also a "They" that don't want him elected because he hasn't even served one term in the Senate
I'd vote for Powell, in a heartbeat, and if my guess is right he'll run as VP to Rudy. The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do. Obama's minister has repeatedly made comments about bettering the lives of "Black Americans". That sounds racist if you ask me (Obama knows this and has distanced himself from his Church). How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?
racism is illogical
:thumbup: Right on.:thumbup:
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;28801 wrote:Powell....Powell? Honorary Uncle Tom Colin Powell.. Seems he got played and pimped by the administration...Massa Bush say, Saddam bad..got WMD...we must attack...they have trailers for biological and chem warfare...see dese cilinders? We have good intel...they are for real..
Destroyed all his credibility in one fell swoop, acting as the errand boy (in Secretary of State clothing)...now he's nothing more than a "whipping boy", and apologist for his airheaded naivete. And the administration is still, actively, trying to discredit him further, now that he is admitting the truth and his reservations.
"The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do." ?????
So easy for you to say that crap, when you're not on the receiving end of any contrived affront. And when you can't operate in society, without it being referenced, subtilely and overtly, daily.
"How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?"
Easy...the "playing field", "still" is not level...no matter how much kool-aid you continue to drink.
So....you've been growling at us over the issue of racial equality, all the while harboring Black nationalist sentiments? So much for sincerity and consistent reasoning. Shame on you. Writers are always supposed to be genuine. :thumbdown:
@aaronssongs,
yep
the most offensive statement made in this thread towards African Americans was actually made by one, and then Aaron you wonder why you can't "elevate your culture", you're throwing the mud on yourself man!
leveling the playing field? Let's do away with affirmative action then, because the playing field isn't very level when employers are forced to hire anybody by the government for any reason.
aww, nothing like the victims mindset
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28810 wrote:yep
the most offensive statement made in this thread towards African Americans was actually made by one, and then Aaron you wonder why you can't "elevate your culture", you're throwing the mud on yourself man!
leveling the playing field? Let's do away with affirmative action then, because the playing field isn't very level when employers are forced to hire anybody by the government for any reason.
aww, nothing like the victims mindset
Excuse me, but what was the offensive part of what I said...you know that the difference between you and I...I, can be objective and call crap "crap", especially when one of my own is putting it out there...you, on the otherhand, practice, "the-good-ol'-boy-we-gotta-stick-together-whatevr" mentality, whenever anyone of you are confronted....(can't let the darkie score any points on us whiteys).
Truth doesn't need for you to believe it to be the truth..truth is truth, whether you believe it or not. Try to absorb that point...I know it's hard.
Affirmative action is a necessary tool because the white majority (or those in positions of power) don't play fair...and for there to be any semblance of parity or equity, it needs to be protected and utilized. And statistically speaking, the greatest benefactor of affirmative action is "white women"...so, don't even go there.
No victim, just holding your feet to the fire...it don't feel good, do it?
I'm detecting "whinning".
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28810 wrote:yep
the most offensive statement made in this thread towards African Americans was actually made by one, and then Aaron you wonder why you can't "elevate your culture", you're throwing the mud on yourself man!
leveling the playing field? Let's do away with affirmative action then, because the playing field isn't very level when employers are forced to hire anybody by the government for any reason.
aww, nothing like the victims mindset
You bang'n, Baby. You bang'n.:thumbup:
@aaronssongs,
aaronssongs;28801 wrote:Powell....Powell? Honorary Uncle Tom Colin Powell.. Seems he got played and pimped by the administration...Massa Bush say, Saddam bad..got WMD...we must attack...they have trailers for biological and chem warfare...see dese cilinders? We have good intel...they are for real..
That is extremely offensive to Colin Powell and successful black men in general.
Powell didn't like the Iraq War strategy, but he gave it a shot. When he learned he was right he stepped down to distance himself from a flawed policy. He was smart to do so because now he doesn't have that "Bush Feel" that Rice or Cheney would have if they ran in 08 and at the same time can't be criticized for jumping ship because he gave it a fair go before he walked away.
aaronssongs;28825 wrote:you, on the other hand, practice, "the-good-ol'-boy-we-gotta-stick-together-whatevr" mentality, whenever anyone of you are confronted....(can't let the darkie score any points on us whiteys).
I don't have room for color in my politics, one way or another. I understand that you
need me to be a racist to justify your anger, but it just isn't so.
And before you accuse me of being a bandwagon supporter, take a look at some of the comments Drenaline or Pino have about some of my stances. I go against the grain as much as I go with it.
But that's just it, you aren't interested in fairness you're interested in partisan empowerment. But I've already addressed Affirmative Action...
As a part of a family business I can tell you that we (the well to do personal office inhabiting white collar types) are only interested in one color, and that's green
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28788 wrote:there is also a "They" that don't want him elected because he hasn't even served one term in the Senate
I'd vote for Powell, in a heartbeat, and if my guess is right he'll run as VP to Rudy. The majority of "White America" that I've seen have far less race identification then African Americans do. Obama's minister has repeatedly made comments about bettering the lives of "Black Americans". That sounds racist if you ask me (Obama knows this and has distanced himself from his Church). How can you claim you're for equality and then spend your efforts trying to elevate those with your level of skin pigmentation of everyone else who's dissimilar?
racism is illogical
Great point, but i think Obama's all about being black.
@aaronssongs,
Quote:That is the height of irony and arrogance...you, a white man,
Shouldn't you make sure they are white first before you say something racist?
@aaronssongs,
oops I forgot, when white people criticize Black people for slandering another minority it means the white person is a racist. How silly of me
get a life, your opinions are pathetic, backed up by nothing more then rhetorical cynicism for the sake of cynicism. You don't even attempt to support your radical positions with anything, but yet you immediately claim everyone else who doesn't agree with you a moron, while retaining your self given title of *objective*
I'm going to give you an opportunity to justify yourself. You seem to think I'm a racist, would you care to elaborate?
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28865 wrote:oops I forgot, when white people criticize Black people for slandering another minority it means the white person is a racist. How silly of me
get a life, your opinions are pathetic, backed up by nothing more then rhetorical cynicism for the sake of cynicism. You don't even attempt to support your radical positions with anything, but yet you immediately claim everyone else who doesn't agree with you a moron, while retaining your self given title of *objective*
I'm going to give you an opportunity to justify yourself. You seem to think I'm a racist, would you care to elaborate?
I did not say, directly, that I thought that you were racist. I said, I wasn't moved by racists or racism, except that I point it (and them), and tactics used surrounding it, out when and wherever I see the signs.
And you weren't being "silly", you were "crossing boundaries", and being "arrogant"...
And I don't have to get a life...I have one...just got called today by a national recording artist, out of Nashville, who has a "international" podcast, every Sunday morning on Jazzsyndicate Radio. UK, who offered to feature my upcoming music cd, on his program, upon its' completion. Don't hate...I'm not who you think I am.
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;28850 wrote:Shouldn't you make sure they are white first before you say something racist?
D-Man, spot on. Yeah....how the heck do any of us really know each others' race? :headbang:
@Silverchild79,
Silverchild79;28865 wrote:oops I forgot, when white people criticize Black people for slandering another minority it means the white person is a racist. How silly of me
get a life, your opinions are pathetic, backed up by nothing more then rhetorical cynicism for the sake of cynicism. You don't even attempt to support your radical positions with anything, but yet you immediately claim everyone else who doesn't agree with you a moron, while retaining your self given title of *objective*
I'm going to give you an opportunity to justify yourself. You seem to think I'm a racist, would you care to elaborate?
I have found that the people you've just described generally turn out to be some the most racist folks among us. It's disappointing, to say the least. :no:
@aaronssongs,
Quote:so, I'm not moved by racism, or racists....but I will hold them accountable, and expose it for what it is everytime....that's just me. If you're feeling uncomfortable...then you might want to look at the reasons for that...not my issue.
Your so full of it your eyes are brown. You expose it? Why? Who appointed you racism judge, talk about hypocritical. I haven't seen any one here say anything remotely like "Masse" or "....(can't let the darkie score any points on us whiteys)" That all comes from you the none racist right? You don't have a racist bone in your body except for the hard on you have for whitey? Woow is me, woow is me.
@Pinochet73,
Pinochet73;28876 wrote:Powell is a damned good leader.
you wouldnt be saying that if he was a democrat.
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