Believe what you want campbell.
You have nowhere proven that you have read anything or any link I have given you. The links and scriptures I have given you campbell are all bible scriptures . So either
A - You just like to argue and don't really care what the bible says.
Or
B- God has given you over to a strong delusion and your eyes are closed to the truth of the scriptures.
No matter only God can open your eyes . I cannot.
I do not know why you are so hung up on the watchtower and JW's .
Let me say again, I am not a Jehovahs witness in denomination.
But then again I certainly am a witness to the truth of the words of Jehovah the most high and only God. So in part you are right except I call the mighty one true God Yaweh and his son our Lord Yeshua . I only use the common mistranslations of the KJV of the bible when talking to people like you campbell who might not know the real name of God and I don't want to insult them with their lack of knowledge.
Jehovah is a mistranslation in English , something the JW's admitted to me they know but do not think its important enough to change. Well I happen to believe getting the name of the one true God Yaweh right as it appears in the original greek and hebrew is important enough to get it right.
After all Christ our Lord made a point of saying in prayer : Father I have came to make your name known to the world.
I am not associated with the watch tower in any way.
The Jehovah witness lost me when they started to claim things like Jesus returned to the earth in 1914 and is here fighting against Satan in another dimension .
I will not talk bad about them but suffice it to say , they and you campbell have a lot in common. They are following the teachings of a man and taking them for truth just like you are . Instead of the real Word and truth straight from the bible campbell. They are a little confused and have believed some lies of Satans campbell just like you.
But never fear God has a plan to bring them and you back into the fold in the end. One day soon you will know the truth campbell .
Until then if you are too frightened to even study the scriptures , you and I have no purpose in talking.
So unless you want to study scripture together I will not be answering your posts directly anymore. But don't expect me to let Satans lies pass for truth when other people than the two of us are involved campbell.
1. Ok so I will repeat your belief, when Jehovah said He made the earth alone and by Himself in the Old Testament, that was not true.
[SIZE="4"] God also said let us make man in our own image . Now who was the us campbell? I'd like to hear your explanation ? consider [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] Genesis 1:26 AND God said, let us make man in our own image, after our likeness : and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Verse 27 So God created man in his own image in the image of man created he him: male and female created he them.[/SIZE].......[SIZE="4"]underlining mine for study purposes. [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] Now campbell this scripture says us and in our image created him male and female . Notice us is plural and so is our . It also says that God created male and female in his own image. And God does call him self el shadad in the bible , which means many breasted one. Now I do not believe God has many breasts , I think this is given to the people of the time in words they could understand that do not make much sense in the modern english tongue and that one has to study with help from the Holy Spirit to understand the bible . Without the help of the Holy Spirit scripture cannot be understood. I will await your explanation campbell hopefully with the refrenced scripture you mentioned in your original post about why scripture says in one place that God created the earth alone and by himself in one place ( scripture please so I know where you are talking about) and then in Genesis 1 it is clear God had somebody with him and uses the words let us and in our image ?[/SIZE]
And in the New Testament when Jesus said He is the first and He is the last, the Alfa and Omega, that was not true.
[SIZE="4"] Of coarse its true! I told you I believe every word of the bible as per what the Holy Spirit has helped me to understand about it. I know that Jesus in revelations says he is the alpha and omega and that God uses the same words when speaking about himself in the old testament. I also know that Jesus says in the bible that the Father is greater than he, that he does only what he heard and learned from the Father , that without the Father he can do nothing. I also know the entire first chapter of Hebrews explains that god the Father made Jesus the first born of all creation and elevated Jesus above even the angels, " because to what angel did God ever say ye are a God this day have I begotten thee , I will be your father you will Be my Son. I also know that 1st Corinthians explains it all that God the Father Yaweh has appointed Jesus ruler over all and that Jesus will rule until all is finished and subdued , the last enemy to be subdued will be death and then Jesus the Son will sit down at the right hand of the Father Yaweh the one true God and be subject himself to God the Father Yaweh.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] Alpha and Omega is a phrase and Jesus can use it as well as Father God , after all the bible tells us that Jesus is the first of creation, the first resurrected , the first of many brethren and the first in a unique relationship with God above all other creation.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] Just like the word -God or gods is used for other people besides Yaweh/ Jehovah and Jesus in the bible , the term alpha and omega is being used for separate beings . Both God the Father and Christ the son.[/SIZE] [SIZE="4"]Can you explain to me campbell who the other God or gods the scriptures speak of campbell are? They are not the one true God or Jesus obviously so who are these Gods spoken of in scripture?[/SIZE]
3. And when Jehovah said in the Old Testament there is no God formed before Him, and there will be no God formed after Him, that was not true because Jehovah made Jesus.
[SIZE="4"] Search the scriptures and ask for guidance in prayer campbell and you will learn that the term God is generic and as in [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"]Psalms 82 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty he judges among the gods.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] Who are these gods , God judges? the term God - or gods is used in the bible a few times and it is not Jesus or God they are talking about . Now who are these Gods, that the mighty one true God judges ? [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] The term is generic [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"]And Jesus speaks about men who receive the word of God as being gods themselves in the new testament . Explain that one?[/SIZE]
4. And when Jehovah said His Words are true forever, that is not true either because Jehovah's Word is filled with counterdictions. (As you have stated!)
[SIZE="4"] Well campbell I can show you hundreds of contradictions in the bible if you want to study them. The contradictions are not from God's mouth they are from mans adding to and taking away from God's word and Jesus warned this would happen. And the contradictions happen just purely because man has made mistranslations either for their own purposes or by accident and as I said many hebrew words do not have a counterpart in English.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] The biggest contradiction comes when well meaning people like yourself latch upon a few scriptures that infer Jesus is equal to God the Father , when in fact those scriptures are few compared to the many where Jesus says he is not God the Father and God the Father is greater than he. I have a list of the places Jesus makes it clear there is a distinction between the two and that Jesus serves God , just like you and I are to serve both God and Jesus , but even Jesus serves God.[/SIZE]
If what I have just printed is incorrect please tell me where I have errored.
Because this is what I have gotten from you during our conversation. Now you say I believe lies stright from SATAN, yet I'm the one who believes both the statements that Jehovah and Jesus have made. So if those statements were made by Jehovah and Jesus, you are telling me they are spreading SATANS lies? And I believe SATANS lies because I agree with Jehovah and Jesus? I'M SORRY, BUT YOUR THE ONE NOT MAKING ANY SENSE HERE.
[SIZE="4"] Ok campbell [/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] I detect a spirit of trying the best way you know how to help me , so i am willing to study with you for the benefit of us both.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] I will write in green and slightly upsized from your own post to separate my words from yours for clarity.[/SIZE]
First of all you are wrong in your statements about what I believe.
[SIZE="4"] I believe everything the bible says campbell . I also know that it has been added to and taken away from by man and that mistranslations happen on purpose in some cases and because in the Hebrew language we often to do have the same words to say the same thing in English. So the only way the bible can be understood is just what the bible tells us. We must have the help of the Holy Spirit and God must open our understanding of the scriptures.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] I feel for what you are saying campbell. But you have to remember that the entire problem came about when Satan said[SIZE="4"] " I will ascend to the most high , I will be like God"[/SIZE] Satan coveted the worship and power of God and still does. Satan will do whatever he can to cause people to not worship God and to pay homage to him. God has set down rules that even Satan cannot cross over , but corrupting the denominations and the bible is not one of them. Satan has long been after the churches to worship when he wants them to. To worship Jesus as the one true God instead of Yaweh the Father and the real one true God , because this actually causes the churches to break the first commandment of God the Father to have no other God before me, not even Jesus. Scripture tells us that God's Word cannot be understood without God opening our eyes and taking the scales from them so we see clearly. Without the Holy Spirit the bible with all mans meddling and mistranslations cannot be understood either . And once you surrender in prayer to the fact you cannot understand and ask God in the name of Jesus to send the comforter and teacher that you may see the scriptures in truth , you'll be surprised at what you will see and learn anew in the bible and related texts that have been removed from the bible as recently as the early 1800's.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="4"] I ask that Yaweh the Father bless the study of this word for me his humble servant and all who read it. Give us wisdom and understanding so that we might know the Holy Scriptures. I ask this in the name of Jesus Christ .
Amen
Paula[/SIZE]
I know you say you believe everything in the Bible yet in post 27 you said Christ clearly says He is not the First and the last the Alpha and Omega. Yet now you say that Christ shares that name with Jehovah. The problem with that is, if Jesus was a created being He could not claim to be the First and the Last. So could you tell me. Were you correct on post 27, or are you now correct on your latest post? Do you believe Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, or is He not the Alpha and Omega? Just trying to find out what you believe before I respond.
In post 27 I meant God the Father existed before Christ. Father God created Jesus is my belief and Jesus created this world. I go into the use of this phrase above in my post. :thumbup:
Ok so you say that the Father made Jesus, yet Jesus said He is the first and the last the Alpha and Omega. How could Jesus make such a statement if He was a created being? Also, I would point out that in John 1:3 it reads. All things were created by him, and apart from him NOT ONE THING WAS CREATED THAT HAS BEEN CREATED. Another words, the Bible is telling us that all things were created by Christ. Or did the Bible mistakenly forget to mention that Jesus was created by the Father? You will note that there was no mention of the Father creating Christ and that certainly would of been the one thing mentioned. Which it is not. How could Christ be a created being if the Bible is telling us that Christ created all things and apart from Christ NOT ONE THING WAS CREATED? Can you explain how this could be?
Campbell
There are lots of scriptures that tell us Christ is the first born of all creation.There are lots of scriptures telling us God the Father created Christ.
But I gave you way too much scripture and my time in the above post , to continue on in this unproductive vein with you.
Read the scriptures I posted and comment on them and the questions and statements I made in the above post and then we can have a productive conversation.
Otherwise we need a soul willing to look and learn and discuss , not just spout the same ( I am sorry) Protestant mantra that makes no sense and has very little to do with the bible.
Campbell
My kids and I do a white water rafting trip this time every year. So I will not be around this weekend.
I will have some time to discuss this study we have started together maybe late tonight if you want to give me your thoughts after reading the scriptures I have given you on the study.
I look forward to productive studies with you where [SIZE="4"]both of us[/SIZE] learn the Word of God with the help of the Holy Spirit.
I certainly do not think I know it all and expect to be learning my entire life. God is just that great and his mysteries that deep. i know he still has things to teach me. I am glad to learn some with you and will discuss the scripture with anyone who does it in the spirit of learning and truth.
But just now I have to pack my camping gear and run to the store for some food and will be having a great time with my family this weekend.
paula:peace:
Do have a nice trip and pray hard about the studies, wvpeach.
These guys are debating not learning. they have their own thoughts and views and will not change them no matter what you share in good faith. They want only to hear that you give up. So for all with blind faith please continue the debate.
Again you and the girls be safe and enjoy the wilderness.
God is my Father , and I am proud.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature .
Hebrews 1: Hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom he also made the worlds.
John 1:18: No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten son which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 8:58 Verily I say unto you , before Abraham was, I am.
John 13:3 And knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he came from God and went to God he riseth from supper.
John 16:27
For the Father himself loveth you because you have loved me , and have believed that I came out from God.
I came forth from the Father , and am come into the world: again I leave the world and go unto the Father.
John 17:
These words spake Jesus , and lifted up his eyes to heaven and said Father the hour is come glorify thy Son that thy Son may also glorify thee; As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou has given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Verse 7: Now they know that all things what so ever thou hast given me are of thee.
Verse 8: For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they received them and kowest surely that I came out of thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Verse 18:
As thou has sent me into the world, even so I have sent them into the world.
Verse 21: That they may all be one ; as thou Father art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me..... Note christ's explanation of "ONE" And "IN Them "
Verse 22: And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them ; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me , that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them as thou hast loved me.
Verse 24: Father I will that they also , whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovest me before the foundation of the world.
O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
And I have declared unto them thy name , and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.[/COLOR]
Lol
Campbell my brother
I just do not read it or understand it the way you do .
And I do not know why you are so hung up on JW's and their bible .
Honestly I have one of their translations here but only use it to find things on occasion if I cannot find it anywhere else as they have a great cross reference in the middle of their little bible. But honestly campbell I never read that bible because my eyes are bad , I have a cataract diagnosed when I was 42, I am now 49 and they will not take it off till it matures. The JW bible is very small , compact in size and small print. Now if I had a large print one I might use it more. But I am not so get off the JW thing.
I use mostly a large print King James Version that belonged to my grandfather, he was a pastor and it if filled with his notes. It makes me feel close to him to read his thoughts as I study .
But I literally have at least 30 bibles. Occasionally I give one away when the time comes up and somebody needs it. But I always end up buying another. I have the new international version. A life application study bible, the catholic bible, New Living translation, and some others. Along with Halleys bible Handbook and literally 2 bookshelves full of reference bible commentaries and devotional writings. I have the writings of Clement , Martyr, Clement of alexandria, Origen, Cyprain, Gregory of Nissa, Augustine, Issac of Ninevah , William the Pious , Martin Luther, Ignatius Of Loyola, John calvin, Francis of sales, Augustine Baker, Gertrude More, DL Moody and many many more. Billy Grahm , Kenneth Copeland, John Haggee to throw in a few modern people I have. All devotional literature by every known church leader that has written commentary on the bible down through the centuries. At least the ones I do not think are totally off the wall. I tell you this not to brag , but to explain that since I became a adult when my parents asked what I wanted for a gift , I have asked for one of these books and I read and re read them. And now that is what my adult children buy me for gifts. I always know what I am getting because I ask for the ones I want. If my house were to burn I would miss only my pictures and my religious library . I tell you all this to explain that having the right bible is not a problem for me campbell.
My next to favorite bible ( after my grandfathers KJV ) is a Jewish translation of the New Testament done by David Stern. I just bought it about a year ago in large print. This has actually become my current study bible as I like the original translations done from greek and hebrew better than the KJV. He is working on a translation of the old testament and I will buy that when its finished. Its my David Stern Jewish translation to English that I left in my husbands truck and need to get out the next time he is home.
And I have a bookshelf full of cheap KJV 's bought at sams club that I have used to study two to three particular subjects in the bible . Say I want to study in this instance how many times Satan is mentioned in the bible. I study and as I do I highlight in say yellow all the scripture old and new testament about Satan in one of the cheap bibles. Another topic say in green. I may use that cheap bible for 2-3 topics of study and then I mark the study topics on the cover and retire it. Then start another bible for the next topic.
So my brother campbell having the correct bible is not my problem I have many of them.
I know what I know and believe I was taught what I know at the feet of the Holy Spirit of God.
I am willing and did read your last post, but I am sorry my friend I do not read it the way you explained it. I used to read it the way you explained it. But that was at least a decade ago, when I was coming out of the denominations of men.
I appreciate your effort campbell I am sure you mean well. But I can tell you I now see the truth of the bible more clearly than I ever have thanks to the Holy Spirit, and I do not intend to regress.
Blessings to you and all under your roof this day campbell.
Paula
So your telling me when the Bible clearly states that Jesus Christ is not a created being, you ignore the wording of that verse, and then put your own spin on it? And the problem I see here is that reguardless of what Bible you are reading from, you still believe the doctrine of the JW's, especially when it comes to Jesus being a created being. It is you, who is paying more attention to the doctrines of men than God's Holy Word. The truth you see in the Bible has more to do with your imagination, and the belief of the founder of the JW's. Could you give me even ONE verse in the Bible that states that Jesus Christ was created by the Father? You said there were hundreds of them.
Campbell read this entire page .
I have already given you dozens of versus where Christ says the father is God and that the Father is greater than him.
You apparently are not reading the verses.
