What does Islam really teach?

Ok, so maybe you have three points but i think Mark gets one too. Score Islam 0, rest of the world 4.


Pelitsnake, i'm just kidding around. Hope i did not offend.

its okey no peoble.:cool:

hi, As you know The holy Quran was in Arabic and when it gets translated it not entirely the same as it was in Arabic. One or two things are implied but the others have the exact meaning.

And as for what tulip keeps on saying about how Islam was made:
What you are doing about Muhammed is relaying on the minority of sources, and what you are saying about him is not true.
I could say that jesus' mother way dreaming when she saw him again and i could say that the bible was distort. You would say it's not etc. then i will say prove it to me. and if you try to say it talks about the messengers etc. I can say lots of people edited it and there is no original and i could say that Jesus had epileptic seizures then he wrote the bible (that is bad on my behalf) would you have a straight answer to that? You could say a whole host of things but i can say i don't believe you. what can you do then. If i was to do that i would be very ignorant.
This is the bit faith kicks in ( you wasn't there in the 7th century was) ( neither was i there at 0 ad to say what i have just said). So you can make a conclusion out of a secondary source.]
As for the Quran goes= it teaches you a way of life and and and many more things. And you go around quoting the really bad bits. Quran do not teach you to rape. Its say you can't even have sex before you are married ( adultery). And the punishment for stealing in the traditional and is still use today is cutting of hands. But you have to read it properly then you can atleast understand.
One thing you can't do is point out facts when you wasn't even there. So you have very secondary information. you would say so have i but that's where the belief comes in again.
We can have all our opinions and beliefs but you can't say a certain thing is a fact because unless you was there to see it. It all theories.
My point is that do not mix up your belief with fact and then try telling someone else. you can have it to yourself but if it's not true or goes against the majority chances are they won't believe you.

Thanks for your time :peace:
( i hope i didn't offend any one)

Actually, petsnake deserves a few for bring up some points that have made me look further at the factual evidence before me, and see further that Muhammad has taught things that are being carried on today, in the Islam education systems, that we consider criminal.

I have again been show the illogic of the Quran...so he needs some points for effort and the faith he has in the religion that has decieved him.


ps

I am simply quoting Muhammad's actual words, PetSnake, and since the Muslims keep saying "Praise Allah" and celebrate behelding a tortured kidnap victim, usually a mechanic or a journalist. In regard to rape, look at world events, women and children are treated shamelessly, the motivation is the teachings of Muhammad that are being carried on today...

The Quran does teach how to rape, Muhammad said this-
first how women are regarded-




note p.snake- you admitted in an earlier post that women were beaten "as a last resort"
This is a crime in our country, in fact in the world.



so slaves can be raped, and wifes regardless of age must have sexual relations and if they resist they will be assaulted and punished...



proof that everything is fine...dirty old men, rejoice!!



'WHO SEEM GOOD TO YOU," KIND OF LIKE PICKING A GOOD POT ROAST!"




rape is okay, because while you shouldn't force any woman who dares to say no, but if the guest decides to rape, well hey, your forgiven...
and so the islamic laws do not punish the men who assault and rape women and children.



So if one of the wifes happens to displease the hubby enough than he can criminally charge her, get some buddies together to say he is right, and that is it, she is tortured to death...i.e. the few that have been seen by the world are stoned, set on fire, or ganged raped and then stoned or set on fire...oh and disfiguration is a punishment of choice.

Now these quotes are all used to justify rape today, just recently in Pakistan, after the world learnt about the brutal laws that would take a raped woman and bury her up to her waist and then stone her to death, because being assaulted and raped she was then told she was a criminal and guilty of 'doing something' to entrance or deserve to be assualted and raped.



SOURCE and for more details- Rape and Islam

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Yes we have new reports of that happening, you see in our country cutting off someones hands is a crime.

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I have, l have my own library and the internet has helped as well...in addition l have read the Bible, which includes the Torah.The scarey part about the Quran is that it is still being used in actions of violence and hatred today.

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You see PetSnake, the facts are backed up by archelogy, the Black Sea Scrolls are examples of real factual evidence furthermore, hsitorical fact is found in documents recovered by your own scolars. It has been confirmed by your own scholars that Muhammad had epiletic siezures, and then the delussions.

I am just the messenger. And you are expressing your curiousity about the Bible again, so here is a link, and l suggest you look for yourself, God is our teacher so l wouldn't even try to explain the truth of the Bible.

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages.

Jesus led by example - sacrificing himself and dying on the cross.

Mohammed led by example - killing his enemies by the sword

Interesting books

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
Amazon.com: The Politically Incorrect Guide(tm) to Islam (and the Crusades: Books: Robert Spencer

The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion
Amazon.com: The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion: Books: Robert Spencer


I would love to believe that Islam is a peaceful religion but here are the facts:

1. Mohammed lived by the sword
2. Muslims today are killing one another
3. Muslims today are killing non-Muslims

Today Islam is the most violent religion

Agreed to both of you. Five points, looks like a skunking if we were playing horseshoe's.

Hello, What you are saying is untrue. If you asked any Muslim if it was allowed in Islam to rape. The answer would be a straight forward no. Don't you think the followers would know more about the religion than the others?
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And as i said earlier, take your time and read the verses before this is what it says and the reason:

[SIZE="3"]Women's Inheritance Rights
[4:7] The men get a share of what the parents and the relatives leave behind. The women too shall get a share of what the parents and relatives leave behind. Whether it is a small or a large inheritance, (the women must get) a definite share.

[4:8] During distribution of the inheritances, if relatives, orphans, and needy persons are present, you shall give them therefrom, and treat them kindly.

[4:9] Those who are concerned about their own children, in case they leave them behind, shall observe GOD and be equitable.

[4:10] Those who consume the orphans' properties unjustly, eat fire into their bellies, and will suffer in Hell.

If No Will Is Left*
[4:11] GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female*. If the inheritors are only women, more than two, they get two-thirds of what is bequeathed. If only one daughter is left, she gets one-half. The parents of the deceased get one-sixth of the inheritance each, if the deceased has left any children. If he left no children, and his parents are the only inheritors, the mother gets one-third. If he has siblings, then the mother gets one-sixth. All this, after fulfilling any will the deceased has left, and after paying off all debts. When it comes to your parents and your children, you do not know which of them is really the best to you and the most beneficial. This is GOD's law. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
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*4:11 Generally, the son is responsible for a family, while the daughter is taken care of by a husband. However, the Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son.

Inheritance For the Spouses
[4:12] You get half of what your wives leave behind, if they had no children. If they had children, you get one-fourth of what they leave. All this, after fulfilling any will they had left, and after paying off all debts. They get one-fourth of what you leave behind, if you had no children. If you had children, they get one-eighth of what you bequeath. All this, after fulfilling any will you had left, and after paying off all debts. If the deceased man or woman was a loner, and leaves two siblings, male or female, each of them gets one-sixth of the inheritance. If there are more siblings, then they equally share one-third of the inheritance. All this, after fulfilling any will, and after paying off all debts, so that no one is hurt. This is a will decreed by GOD. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.

God Communicates With Us
Through His Messenger
[4:13] These are GOD's laws. Those who obey GOD and His messenger, He will admit them into gardens with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever. This is the greatest triumph. [/SIZE]

As you can see this is all to do with inheritance
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As i stated earlier meaning don't always come out exactly the same if translated in another language. But this is what is implied:

Do Not Beat Your Wife*
[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, ** and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.
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*4:34 God prohibits wife-beating by using the best psychological approach. For example, if I don't want you to shop at Market X, I will ask you to shop at Market Y, then at Market Z, then, as a last resort, at Market X. This will effectively stop you from shopping at Market X, without insulting you. Similarly, God provides alternatives to wife-beating; reasoning with her first, then employing certain negative incentives. Remember that the theme of this sura is defending the women's rights and countering the prevalent oppression of women. Any interpretation of the verses of this sura must be in favor of the women. This sura's theme is "protection of women."
**4:34 This expression simply means that God is appointing the husband as "captain of the ship." Marriage is like a ship, and the captain runs it after due consultation with his officers. A believing wife readily accepts God's appointment, without mutiny.
(sura/revelation are other words for chapters)
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I don't blame you,but this is what happens when you get your sources from "anti-Islam" websites.
below the same verse is translated. And not one mentions slave raping etc.
(from 4 different sources) :

Incest Forbidden
[4:23] Prohibited for you (in marriage) are your mothers, your daughters, your sisters, the sisters of your fathers, the sisters of your mothers, the daughters of your brother, the daughters of your sister, your nursing mothers, the girls who nursed from the same woman as you, the mothers of your wives, the daughters of your wives with whom you have consummated the marriage - if the marriage has not been consummated, you may marry the daughter. Also prohibited for you are the women who were married to your genetic sons. Also, you shall not be married to two sisters at the same time - but do not break up existing marriages. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
PICKTHAL: Forbidden unto you are your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your father's sisters, and your mother's sisters, and your brother's daughters and your sister's daughters, and your foster-mothers, and your foster-sisters, and your mothers-in-law, and your step-daughters who are under your protection (born) of your women unto whom ye have gone in - but if ye have not gone in unto them, then it is no sin for you (to marry their daughters) - and the wives of your sons who (spring) from your own loins. And (it is forbidden unto you) that ye should have two sisters together, except what hath already happened (of that nature) in the past. Lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said regarding this issue:

The following information was sent to me. Let us look at how Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him dealt with the rapists:

Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

"When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

He (the Prophet) said to the woman: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. And about the man who had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4366

So you see your source is false and I and other Muslims should aught to know more about Islam and what it teaches then other non-Muslim sources.
And i know for a fact that this is take from an "anti-Islam" website.
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This is also to do with marriage, and as i said earlier this is nothing to do with rape. :
[33:50] O prophet, we made lawful for you your wives to whom you have paid their due dowry, or what you already have, as granted to you by GOD. Also lawful for you in marriage are the daughters of your father's brothers, the daughters of your father's sisters, the daughters of your mother's brothers, the daughters of your mother's sisters, who have emigrated with you. Also, if a believing woman gave herself to the prophet - by forfeiting the dowry - the prophet may marry her without a dowry, if he so wishes. However, her forfeiting of the dowry applies only to the prophet, and not to the other believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses or what they already have. This is to spare you any embarrassment. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
[33:51] You may gently shun any one of them, and you may bring closer to you any one of them. If you reconcile with any one you had estranged, you commit no error. In this way, they will be pleased, will have no grief, and will be content with what you equitably offer to all of them. GOD knows what is in your hearts. GOD is Omniscient, Clement.
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Again, this is playing with words hence it has changed the whole meaning of the verse. This is what it really says:

[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.
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Now i really know that the sources you get your information from are extremely unrelaiable.
This chapter has got nothing to do with women etc.
This is what it really says:
[24:34] We have revealed to you clarifying revelations, and examples from the past generations, and an enlightenment for the righteous.
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Well judging by your you havent read it properly and you are relaying on untrue sources. Islam is very peaceful religion and don't forget that the holy Quran was sent down at a time when the other religions were prosecuting the Muslims.
So i think its best if you leave it to the Muslims on what they believe in. And please don't relay on untrue sources.
It is obvious that you have some thing against the religion but please don't post untrue verses.

Thanks for reading ( this is the source for the Quran translations English - Submission.org)
any other questions? please ask.
i hope no on was offended.
and can i ask you a question ( for a change,lol)
what does the bible say about rape?

Ha! Islam is a peaceful religion!LOL!!! Oh my goodness, how l truly wish that was true.

Now, You are uttering falsehoods about the Quran and how my versions are incorrect. These are indeed correct, while your versions are from some translated hadith modified version, mine is from the Quran used today in Canadian Mosques. So you are the one that needs to identify your sources and stop lieing about my posts.

You have said before these things, oh you just haven't read it, and oh you are just mis-qouting...and l have taken the time to then post the before and after and four or five versions...it just keeps getting worse...now stop the whining and the falsehoods and show what Hadith you are using for your quotes, l want the version.

Here are some current events in the world today where we can see The law of Islam in action-

Here is a darling little girl, of Hueida and Wagdi Al-Arabi and can help us understand the tolerance and understandings of all true Muslims'...



Soapbox on MSN Video Beta

By denying these words of Muhammad you are sinning and according to him you will face grave punishment, scourging and hell fire...

but if you are nice and stop being so silly l will allow you to study up and have Santa rescue you and give you a few toys...

l understand that Hezbollah ahs some extra playstations and you can practice murdering and torturing Jews and Christians with the kiddies who want to be suicide bombers...

Where are you located anyway, in Lebanon?

here an interesting story, but of course there are so many, showing the brutality of Muslims' in action, just following Muhat's example-



http://www.sweetness-light.com/archive/sunni-terrorists-kill-24-shiites-mostly-teens

here's an example from Iran-



yep, and l could go on but Yahsau's birthday is coming up and l must prepare...Merry Christmas and holiday greetings to all my friends, and everyone else as well!!!

Merry Christmas Tulip.

hello,
What i can't defend is the actions of bad Muslims today, and some Muslims misinterpet their religion. But what i can and will defend is the core beliefs.
So i figured that if a pictures speaks for a thousand words, then this video will help you understand that ISLAM DENOUNCES TERRORISM.
==>. YouTube - ISLAM DENOUNCES TERRORISM

Thank you :peace:

You can't defend them but you don't condem them either in my opinion. That does not site in a well lit spot.
Why are most muslims silent when such atrosities are used in the name of your religion. The rest of those that believe that should seek the others out and expose them to the daylight. Instead they get hidden.

yea thats the problem nowadays. we are hidden as Christians own the world. no offence.

btw, have u all ever been to a mosque?

Can we take it your a Muslim? If we own the world you must be trying to steal it?

Yes i am. Are you questioning me or the whole Muslim community? Well, first of all, i have no power to steal it as now the US have the mightiest power of all. Secondly, i dont bother to steal it as it can only produce hate. yea? btw, if u want to see the real Islamic environment, go and have a look around at the mosque.

One of the primary tenants of Islam is to spread Islam around the world - even by the sword if necessary.

Islam is in the same "place" that Christianity was 300 to 800 years ago.
Remember the Inquisition or the Missionaries in the New World?

We Christians were a nasty bunch but we evolved to a higher level.
The Muslims still have to evolve. Sadly it will take more than a hundred years and millions and millions - if not billions of lives.

Finally, someone who understands. Thanks alot Zozo.
Well, yea, one of the primary tenants of Islam is to spread Islam around the world - even by the sword if necessary.
As now, that we are more stabalize and modernized, Islam is spread by talks, lectures, etc.
yea, about devoted Muslims. Only God knows who are the devoted ones. we have no power to claim that. Well, in the world, Muslims like the Uztaz(or like Pope) are the better Muslim. They spread knowledge, lead us in prayers, etc. yea, i certainly long to be an Uztaz when i get older(im still young), well, all i can do now is work harder and pray upon God, Allah, the Almighty.
well, I'll be going to another country tommorow. so i cant reply any future posts for a few days. sorry. May peace be upon you.

btw, do u all know that Muhammad also spread Islam by meeting up with the Kings of different countries/states

Due the era of Christian Barbarism there were not "others" to learn from. Everyone was at the same stage of sociological development.

Today Islam can learn from the West in order to Modernize and Civilize faster. Hopefully it will not take Radical Islam 500 years before they join the civilized global community.

I understand that only 5% of Muslims might be radical and another 20% might tacitly support the radicals. It is therefore up to the other 75% to help Islam evolve into a modern religion and Muslims into a modern social group.