1
   

Pro Life, or Pro Choice?

 
 
rugonnacry
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 07:20 am
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;18191 wrote:
Pot calling the Kettle black.


KNow its "The cristian calling the Hethen a Whore" LOL
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 08:18 am
@Curmudgeon,
Curmudgeon;18191 wrote:
Pot calling the Kettle black.
Personally i like the patina i have accumulated. And I've always thought i looked good in black, LOL.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 08:19 am
@rugonnacry,
rugonnacry;18199 wrote:
KNow its "The cristian calling the Hethen a Whore" LOL
LOL Me and you are like pee's and carrots.
0 Replies
 
socalgolfguy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 May, 2007 02:26 pm
@LukeN,
After having 3 kids, I was outspoken against abortion. But to be honest, when my wife aborted our 4th, I felt relieved...and ashamed. Unless you have been faced with this issue you do not know how you will react.
missdixy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 03:03 am
@jatuab,
jatuab;3479 wrote:
haha, yet another one of your polls that I can't answer

I believe that the mother has total rights to her body, and therefore has the right to choose an abortion or not, but I also don't believe that it is the moral thing to do unless there's an eminent threat to the mother's life without an abortion.


I feel the same way, which is why I support abortion politically (i think it should be legal) but it's not something I believe is moral.
Skye cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 07:17 am
@rugonnacry,
There is always the ultimate choice: preparation to thwart pregnancy so it doesn't have to be the choice at all.

In an ultlimate world - which unfortunately we don't have.
:frown:
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jun, 2007 07:38 am
@missdixy,
missdixy;20221 wrote:
I feel the same way, which is why I support abortion politically (i think it should be legal) but it's not something I believe is moral.
If you believe it immoral you should believe it the same for political as well, IMO.
Arterion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 06:05 pm
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;20229 wrote:
If you believe it immoral you should believe it the same for political as well, IMO.


Some people have enough respect for individual freedoms to not want to force their morality onto someone else. Are you saying you're against freedom?
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 08:53 am
@Arterion,
Arterion;27025 wrote:
Some people have enough respect for individual freedoms to not want to force their morality onto someone else. Are you saying you're against freedom?


That statement pissed me off. I feel like killing you now. Is that a freedom I have?

*Hypothetical, I don't really feel like killing you.
socalgolfguy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 09:19 am
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;27062 wrote:
That statement pissed me off. I feel like killing you now. Is that a freedom I have?

*Hypothetical, I don't really feel like killing you.


Arterion, your point was pointless. For a poster of some intellect, that was a very broad and weak statement.
0 Replies
 
scooby-doo cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 12:49 pm
@socalgolfguy,
socalgolfguy;18276 wrote:
After having 3 kids, I was outspoken against abortion. But to be honest, when my wife aborted our 4th, I felt relieved...and ashamed. Unless you have been faced with this issue you do not know how you will react.


thats why im pro-choice
Dmizer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 12:55 pm
@LukeN,
I am opposed to abortions and for the following reasons:

Even if someone believes that abortions are acceptable, then at least consider this:
Most of abortion methods are cruel, extremely inhumane and painful, very painful for the fetus/baby.
If you intend to kill the fetus, then do so in a humane way...... If the equivalent methods to abortion were used to kill animals at the dog pond, the ASPCA and other animal groups...well, you get the idea.
The dangers associated with abortions are not explained clearly (most people believe that abortions are completely safe). There are many dangers physically and psychologically (infection, infertility, bleeding, depression and suicide, just to name a few).
Abortions go against my belief in liberty and justice.
Liberty to choose for one's self requires that as free individuals, we are responsible for our actions and the consequences thereof.
Justice is when you get what you deserve.
A woman should have the right to do with her own body what she wishes, but when she does what she wants to do, and as a result becomes pregnant, she has done what she wanted to do with her own body. How ever when she goes for an abortion, she is doing something to someone else's body.
What has the unborn done to deserve death? NOTHING! It is not at fault for any thing including it's on existence, and yet it is expected to pay with it's life, no trial, no jury, and no say in what happens to them.
Every one knows that sex will result in a pregnancy, so sexually active people (and every one else) should be responsible for their own actions unless they are not free. Freedom carry's with it a requirement that you must accept responsibility for your own actions.
Pro-abortionists say: " If you don't like abortions then don't have one". My response to them is: That is a great logical process, You just changed my mind, I think I'll apply that to the rest of my philosophy and change my opinions about every thing else too......

" If you don't like slavery then don't enslave anyone".
" If you don't like rape then don't rape anyone".
" If you don't like murder then don't murder anyone".
" If you don't like theft then don't steal from anyone".
" If you don't like lies then don't lie to anyone".
" If you don't like sexually transmitted diseases then don't transmit one".
" If you don't like terrorist then don't bomb anyone".
" If you don't like animal cruelty then don't be cruel to one".
" If you don't like oppression then don't oppress anyone".
" If you don't like arson then don't burn the property of anyone".


As you can see this type of thinking is anarchy, at it's worst. Basically it says: shut up and let me do what I want, I don't care how it affects anyone else, I just want to do what I want to do. It is very self centered and childish
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 01:38 pm
@Dmizer,
Dmizer;27088 wrote:

As you can see this type of thinking is anarchy, at it's worst. Basically it says: shut up and let me do what I want, I don't care how it affects anyone else, I just want to do what I want to do. It is very self centered and childish


Free thinking, and personal resonibility do not mean anarchy. By your broad generalization that we should be told how to do everything, and the government being responsible for our actions is as totalitarian as that is anarchism.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:40 pm
@LukeN,
Here goes 92b, overreacting. I don't think you read that in full context.
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:41 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;27100 wrote:
Here goes 92b, overreacting. I don't think you read that in full context.


Overreacting? Riiight, go away little man.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:45 pm
@LukeN,
Quote:
Pro-abortionists say: " If you don't like abortions then don't have one". My response to them is: That is a great logical process, You just changed my mind, I think I'll apply that to the rest of my philosophy and change my opinions about every thing else too......

" If you don't like slavery then don't enslave anyone".
" If you don't like rape then don't rape anyone".
" If you don't like murder then don't murder anyone".
" If you don't like theft then don't steal from anyone".
" If you don't like lies then don't lie to anyone".
" If you don't like sexually transmitted diseases then don't transmit one".
" If you don't like terrorist then don't bomb anyone".
" If you don't like animal cruelty then don't be cruel to one".
" If you don't like oppression then don't oppress anyone".
" If you don't like arson then don't burn the property of anyone".


As you can see this type of thinking is anarchy, at it's worst. Basically it says: shut up and let me do what I want, I don't care how it affects anyone else, I just want to do what I want to do. It is very self centered and childish


I don't see how anyone with a brain can read this and have a problem with it.

Oh, wait, I see...
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:51 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;27104 wrote:
I don't see how anyone with a brain can read this and have a problem with it.

Oh, wait, I see...


Because those statements are not anarchism, and free thinking, is not anarchism, and not wanting the government meddling in your personal life, is not anarchism. Labeling something to make it inflamatory like anarchism and then trying to parallel it to such a disbelief in a governing system is ridiculous. "You can't have free will because free will leads to anarchy", no, it doesn't, nice try.

Now go find a government agency to help you form you next thought.
Arterion
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:52 pm
@LukeN,
Well, what's the answer? Either you're for it or your not. You can't cherry pick the circumstances. "Oh, yeah, I am all for personal freedom as long you believe exactly what I do!" Personal freedom isn't limited to coke vs. pepsi. There are some difficult issues, but the moral precedence of respecting freedom must be greater than the moral objection to some activity, or else we are really working against freedom.

That's not to say, "Well then, I have the freedom to <insert wrongdoing>, right?" No, not at all, because that violates the respect for freedom: in this case, my freedom. My freedom to live my life free of harm. Sort of the old "your right to swing your fist stops at my nose" idea.

That's how I can say, "You know, I think it's wrong to <some-evil-but-harmless-thing>, but it's not up to me to decide for everyone else." Why? Because it does no harm to you. You would be infringing on someone else's freedom by preventing them from doing it. The position of missdixy here is the most enlightened. Basically, "I think it's wrong, but I don't have the right to speak for anyone else. It doesn't harm me, therefore I have no right to force anyone else to stop." She can beg. She can plead. She can bribe. But she cannot and should not force.

That's what the pro-choice/pro-life debate is all about. Whether or not you believe in freedom. If you do, then it trumps all other moral obligations you have, otherwise you do not truly believe in it.
0 Replies
 
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:57 pm
@LukeN,
Lots of people here only believe in it 1) when it suits them, and 2) when the gubermint tells them it's ok. They think it's fine and dandy we are fighting for the "freedom of Iraqi people", but want to try telling fellow Americans what choices they can make based on THEIR moral position.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 02:59 pm
@92b16vx,
92b16vx;27105 wrote:
Because those statements are not anarchism, and free thinking, is not anarchism, and not wanting the government meddling in your personal life, is not anarchism. Labeling something to make it inflamatory like anarchism and then trying to parallel it to such a disbelief in a governing system is ridiculous. "You can't have free will because free will leads to anarchy", no, it doesn't, nice try.

Now go find a government agency to help you form you next thought.


He's saying that the logic behind "if you don't like abortion, don't have one," is flawed because it can be said of murder, theft, etc. To not enforce laws based on murder based on the premise "if you don't like murder, don't kill anyone" is anarchy.
 

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