1
   

Pro Life, or Pro Choice?

 
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 03:51 pm
@LukeN,
That is the way polls work. Were all Amerians to be interviewed, the polls would take forever. So, people are randomly selected from the population with targets on specific numbers of a race or religion or gender if possible or desirble. Anyway, once the pollsters do what they have to do, theymanage to come up with a representative result system.

And all species think of their own in these terms. Wolves will not hold human life in high regard if they are starving and the human is easy prey. So, humans, as predators at the top of the food chain, may use earthworms for their purposes to get food. Killing their own species, to speak of it in the same terms, is not natural. no one has any right to kill anything for no reason, including animals. Let's take hunting for sport for example. If you hunt something you aren't going to eat or use for other purposes (assuming this is possible to do with the animal), IMO, you should not be hunting it. There are other outlets of sport. Likewise there are other options besides abortion, so why kill your own species, so to speak?
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 04:06 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14646 wrote:
Likewise there are other options besides abortion, so why kill your own species, so to speak?


The mothers instinct? Not to be confused with A mothers instinct.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 04:15 pm
@LukeN,
No, I doubt it. Not too long ago, the mother's instinct would have been to bring the child into the world for population growth, etc. In fact, the only thing that allows the mother to make the choice to have an abortion is our modern, man-made abortion process. Nothing to do with instinct.

Besides, instinct is generally good for you; that is the way it has evolved to be. Complications like depression after abortions are not good for you, so it is unlikely abortion is an instinct.
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 04:19 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14651 wrote:
No, I doubt it. Not too long ago, the mother's instinct would have been to bring the child into the world for population growth, etc. In fact, the only thing that allows the mother to make the choice to have an abortion is our modern, man-made abortion process. Nothing to do with instinct.

Besides, instinct is generally good for you; that is the way it has evolved to be. Complications like depression after abortions are not good for you, so it is unlikely abortion is an instinct.


Unless her instincts put her life ahead of the unborns. Don't fool yourself that abortion is a product of modern man, unless you have some factual data to back up that it is.

Do you think it would be better to abort the unborn, or abandon the born?
0 Replies
 
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 06:02 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14630 wrote:
Any animal wants to live, even if they can't tell you. The child has a brain very soon after conception and surelyw would have the basic desire to live, as manifested by the perpetual carrying out of life processes.


I'm not sure about the brain, nor do I need evidence. Disregarding the words from ...."The"...to..."conception", I completely agree with this view.
0 Replies
 
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 06:04 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14651 wrote:
No, I doubt it. Not too long ago, the mother's instinct would have been to bring the child into the world for population growth, etc. In fact, the only thing that allows the mother to make the choice to have an abortion is our modern, man-made abortion process. Nothing to do with instinct.

Besides, instinct is generally good for you; that is the way it has evolved to be. Complications like depression after abortions are not good for you, so it is unlikely abortion is an instinct.


Interesting view. I would say depression in any circumstance is not good. (just my view)

More aligned with topic, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with this view.
0 Replies
 
chuckc cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 May, 2007 06:28 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14646 wrote:
That is the way polls work. Were all Amerians to be interviewed, the polls would take forever. So, people are randomly selected from the population with targets on specific numbers of a race or religion or gender if possible or desirble. Anyway, once the pollsters do what they have to do, theymanage to come up with a representative result system. And all species think of their own in these terms. Wolves will not hold human life in high regard if they are starving and the human is easy prey. So, humans, as predators at the top of the food chain, may use earthworms for their purposes to get food. Killing their own species, to speak of it in the same terms, is not natural. no one has any right to kill anything for no reason, including animals. Let's take hunting for sport for example. If you hunt something you aren't going to eat or use for other purposes (assuming this is possible to do with the animal), IMO, you should not be hunting it. There are other outlets of sport. Likewise there are other options besides abortion, so why kill your own species, so to speak?



Yes I agree with every point. Although I have heard of instances of chimpazees killing each other. My theory would they are doing so for the survival of one specific group of chimps vs. another.

Instead of just agreeing, I will actually state my opinion.

Man is truly, according to the laws of nature, an animal first and foremost. Fortunately through evolution (I define evolution as evidence of life energy at work), we developed conveniences. When no longer posed with hunger, as a primary obession, we had more time to think. Through that thinking, man ( as an animal) felt the urge (or need) to question, and developed a world view based on "something larger than themselves".

So as animal our primary goal is life. At the primal level, we all do this. Why do some go to a job they do not like? Survival or happiness. However, man commits suicide. I would be suspect to find that in the animal world. It may happen but probably not for the reasons man does.

Now, regarding abortion. I truly do not care if the child is a child or not. IMO, for me, I cannot possibly tell anyone else, who is fully conscious, what to do with their body.

If I was personally responsible I would try to persuade my sexual partner. Not force, not arrest, etc...persuade....I think I could pose a good argument to her. If she chooses to have an abortion, legally in America, she can. If she did, I would question who I choose as sexual partners.

Plain and simple....If you feel you are mature enough to have sex, then you IMO you should feel you are responsible enough to handle the consequences.

How many times would you really have sex, if before the act, you asked, oh hey by the way, in case you get pregnant will you have an abortion or keep child? In this instance I am using a "one night stand". My point: we need mature sexual behavior. Not by age, or marriage, but through knowledge and education.
scotty cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 12:28 pm
@LukeN,
Personally I am pro-choice and I found this article from a health webiste that talks about the dangers if another conservative is elected to office. It is from a med school student.

MedSocial - United We Heal - Blogs
0 Replies
 
92b16vx
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 01:46 pm
@chuckc cv,
chuckc;14677 wrote:
Plain and simple....If you feel you are mature enough to have sex, then you IMO you should feel you are responsible enough to handle the consequences.

How many times would you really have sex, if before the act, you asked, oh hey by the way, in case you get pregnant will you have an abortion or keep child? In this instance I am using a "one night stand". My point: we need mature sexual behavior. Not by age, or marriage, but through knowledge and education.


With sex as demonized as it is in America it only appeals to younger, less educated crowds more and more. Of course if they teach sex ed earlier in school, you're going to step on some christians childs fragile sensibilities, and we wouldn't want to educate people when we can keep them proper, blind, and under control.

Fact is the christian reich has been anti pretty much every form of education, and prevention, unfortunely this has never, and will never stop people from having sex, married or not.
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 06:47 pm
@LukeN,
Quote:
I think that Partial Birth Abortions are a pretty scary thing, but to have the government, tell women how to rule their bodies is not the place of the government.

If the Democrats lose the White House and Congress anytime soon, Roe V. Wade will most likely be overturned and then left up to the states, which means a vast amount of states will make abortion illegal. Leaving women to go back to the days of backdoor abortions, which mean more diseases, infections and ultimately death.

Chick should make up here mind. First she wants the government to butt out on womens rights then in the next paragraph she hopes it's not left up to the states. Who does she think took it away from the states if not the government?
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 06:53 pm
@LukeN,
Perhaps a clever way to say 'I want anarchy.'?
0 Replies
 
Drnaline
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 06:58 pm
@LukeN,
She keeps talking about womens rights, which one's are they being denied? I've never read about a right to choose?
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 07:00 pm
@LukeN,
No, I assume she would say they said there were in Roe v. Wade, but the Supreme Court also said black people couldn't be citizens, so...
0 Replies
 
trappedbyparties
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 10:42 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14242 wrote:
Didn't it say person, not citizen? So now we can kill noncitizens?

At the time, the court was well stocked with liberals.

From the moment of conception, the baby is defined as everything it will be, it has al it's DNA and it is a living human, even if you don't think it looks like one. Your hand has no chance of becoming a fully-fledged person.


it says any person born, you are not considered born untill you come out and cry or breathe as proof of being alive. this is why doctors slap the bottom or pinch the toes or whatever they chose to do to prove life.

I personaly don't condone abortion, i didn't do it when i got my wife pregnant before we were married. Altho, i also don't think that other people should be denied that right. If a woman knows she can't take care of a kid and the father wants nothing to do with it, she or they should have the choice to abort it. It would most certainly help with over population. It would most certainly slow the overwhelming rate of welfare mommies. You can't controll it, Marijuana was made illegal and still is sold and smoked, probably more than before. If a person wants to abort a fetus, they will do it wether it is legal or not. So in that respect, it doesn't really matter. As it was said before, these people will eventualy have to live with the guilt of thier actions. If there is a God, They will have to answer to him or it someday. I like the idea that people will have to live with the guilt.
trappedbyparties
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 10:53 pm
@Reagaknight,
Reagaknight;14646 wrote:
Killing their own species, to speak of it in the same terms, is not natural.


It is natural for animals to kill thier own species. Especialy during mating season or just for territorial reasons. This is a natural animal instinct. For example there are three dogs, two male and one famale in heat. One male dog tries to advance on the female and the other thinks the female is his. they engage in a battle of dominance, one kills the other. Or One male dog enters the teretory of another male dog and they fight for the teretory and one gets killed. it is animal nature to fight and kill, if you study animals actions and reactions.
trappedbyparties
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 May, 2007 10:56 pm
@trappedbyparties,
trapped.by.parties;15051 wrote:
it says any person born, you are not considered born untill you come out and cry or breathe as proof of being alive. this is why doctors slap the bottom or pinch the toes or whatever they chose to do to prove life.

I personaly don't condone abortion, i didn't do it when i got my wife pregnant before we were married. Altho, i also don't think that other people should be denied that right. If a woman knows she can't take care of a kid and the father wants nothing to do with it, she or they should have the choice to abort it. It would most certainly help with over population. It would most certainly slow the overwhelming rate of welfare mommies. You can't controll it, Marijuana was made illegal and still is sold and smoked, probably more than before. If a person wants to abort a fetus, they will do it wether it is legal or not. So in that respect, it doesn't really matter. As it was said before, these people will eventualy have to live with the guilt of thier actions. If there is a God, They will have to answer to him or it someday. I like the idea that people will have to live with the guilt.



further more the government could actually gain financially by it, since it can't be controlled, i believe this is acceptable.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 07:26 am
@trappedbyparties,
trapped.by.parties;15051 wrote:
it says any person born, you are not considered born untill you come out and cry or breathe as proof of being alive. this is why doctors slap the bottom or pinch the toes or whatever they chose to do to prove life.

I personaly don't condone abortion, i didn't do it when i got my wife pregnant before we were married. Altho, i also don't think that other people should be denied that right. If a woman knows she can't take care of a kid and the father wants nothing to do with it, she or they should have the choice to abort it. It would most certainly help with over population. It would most certainly slow the overwhelming rate of welfare mommies. You can't controll it, Marijuana was made illegal and still is sold and smoked, probably more than before. If a person wants to abort a fetus, they will do it wether it is legal or not. So in that respect, it doesn't really matter. As it was said before, these people will eventualy have to live with the guilt of thier actions. If there is a God, They will have to answer to him or it someday. I like the idea that people will have to live with the guilt.



This is only in case it is still-born, of course it's alive in the womb.
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 07:28 am
@trappedbyparties,
trapped.by.parties;15052 wrote:
It is natural for animals to kill thier own species. Especialy during mating season or just for territorial reasons. This is a natural animal instinct. For example there are three dogs, two male and one famale in heat. One male dog tries to advance on the female and the other thinks the female is his. they engage in a battle of dominance, one kills the other. Or One male dog enters the teretory of another male dog and they fight for the teretory and one gets killed. it is animal nature to fight and kill, if you study animals actions and reactions.


I am aware of this, which is why I said 'to speak of it in the same terms.' There is nothing like abortion in the animal world.
0 Replies
 
markx15
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 08:58 am
@LukeN,
Sorry to be a pain, but maybe you should edit this:
Quote:
There is nothing like abortion in the animal world.
, specifing what kind of abortion, maybe animals don't do so purposly, but there are natural abortions.
0 Replies
 
Reagaknight
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 May, 2007 10:53 am
@LukeN,
The sort of abortions we're talking about, deliberate ones.
 

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