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F.B.I. Targeting Americans Again

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:23 pm
I'm sure the far right would tell you they were criminals for opposing the government. Rolling Eyes
As for the Quakers, they are very pacifist, pro human rights, etc..therfore certainly dangerous to anyone who seeks to make war or engage in oppression.
The Quakers are very anti exclusionary, and everyone who is interested is very welcome.
Here is their main US website:Society of Friends

Here is their statement on the Iraq invasion:
Quote:
A Statement from Leaders of Friends Organizations in the U.S.
Regarding the War in Iraq
March 20, 2003

As servants of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), as citizens of the United States, and as members of the human family, we speak today to express our profound grief and sorrow over our government's decision to go to war against Iraq. This is a choice we know will have enormous and tragic consequences -- many as yet unimagined -- for the Iraqi people, for our own nation, and for the world. It is a choice we believe was unnecessary, immoral and unwise, especially since it was taken before all the nonviolent and diplomatic alternatives were exhausted; indeed, before some were even explored.

The God we worship is a God of love (I John: 4). This Divine Spirit will always guide us into "paths of righteousness" -- into lives of caring for, service to, and reconciliation with our fellow human beings -- if only we will open ourselves to Divine direction and follow where that leads. This God tells "what is good, and that is to do justice, and love mercy, and walk humbly with our God" (Micah 6:8). The living Christ, our Teacher, tells us "to love our enemies" (Mt. 5:44). We wonder where the justice, the mercy, or the love is to be found in our government's decision to launch this preemptive attack, and begin a war where so many people will die.

We are deeply saddened by the pain and suffering, the destruction and loss of life, and the grief that this war will bring to the Iraqi people. We are deeply saddened as well by the pain and suffering, the loss of life, and the grief that will be experienced by our soldiers, their families, and the many, many others who will be victims of this war. All these people -- Iraqis, American, British and others -- are children of God. We pray for God's mercy on us all.

If this war goes swiftly, and the military objectives of our government are achieved, some will call it a success. But that can never be true. This war, like every war, represents a profound failure. It shows the failure of individuals and governments to address conditions of poverty, injustice, and oppression that lead to war. It shows our failure as human beings to overcome our own fears and greed, which we are told in Scripture are the root causes of war and strife (James 4:1-2). It shows a failure of will and creativity among those in our own government and others to seek alternatives to military force to resolve our conflicts. Finally, it represents a tragic failure to work through and respect the United Nations as the keystone of an evolving international system of law and diplomacy that can respond to international crises and avert war.

On this day, in our sorrow and our hope for a better future, we recommit ourselves to work with all people of faith and goodwill to bring this conflict to an end, and to do whatever can be done to avoid more wars. We believe, as President Carter observed in accepting the Nobel Peace Prize, that "war is always an evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other's children." And we pray fervently for that time the prophet Isaiah predicted, when we "shall beat our swords into plowshares, and our spears into pruning hooks; and nation will not lift up sword against nation, and we shall not learn war anymore" (Is. 2:4).
Signatories: Mary Ellen McNish, General Secretary, American Friends Service Committee
Joe Volk, Executive Secretary, Friends Committee on National Legislation
Bruce Birchard, General Secretary, Friends General Conference
Ben Richmond, Director of North American Ministries, Friends United Meeting
Steve Baumgartner, Executive Director, Pendle Hill
Thomas Jeavons, General Secretary, Philadelphia Yearly Meeting
Bruce Birchard
General Secretary
Friends General Conference
1216 Arch Street, Suite 2-B
Philadelphia, PA 19107
Phone: 215-561-1700
Fax: 215-561-0759

So, yes, from the perspective of Bush and Ashcroft, they most certainly are dangerous. From the perspective of those of us who love peace and abhor violence, they are a breath of fresh air.
The Friends have been major forces in social reform in the US since the 17th century. They have also been a voice against war, often ignored, and often they have been proven right about war's consequences.
P.S. : I apologize for the "drooling hatred and virtiol" that I'm sure a few far right wing members of this forum will say it contains. Wink
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:25 pm
Terrorism: deadly violence against humans and other living things, usually conducted by government against its own people.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:26 pm
dyslexia wrote:
I have no idea if Quakers are on Blatham/Lola's extremist list, but they are on the FBI extremist list.


Dys

I'm sure they are---you seem to take some perverse pleasure in the accuracy of your information which you seem to think are arrows that will smite down anyone who you disagree with-----I say---so what---the Quakers are extreme in their beliefs from what I know.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:29 pm
perception wrote:
Dys

I'm sure they are---you seem to take some perverse pleasure in the accuracy of your information which you seem to think are arrows that will smite down anyone who you disagree with-----I say---so what---the Quakers are extreme in their beliefs from what I know.

I'm sure they are on your list of those who should be shot for treason, along with anyone else who doesn't favour fascism!
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:30 pm
What God?
The God of the Quakers is obvisously not the same one that instructs our heroic President.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:32 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
For instance, the kids at Kent State committed nothing resembling a capital crime, yet they were killed.


Com'on Edgar----I'll bet you believe Bush is responsible for that also. At least dredge up something current.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:40 pm
perception wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
For instance, the kids at Kent State committed nothing resembling a capital crime, yet they were killed.


Com'on Edgar----I'll bet you believe Bush is responsible for that also.

No, it is obvious to those who don't resp[ond to every challenge with hyperbole that Bush II was not involved. He was too busy getting stoned.

Quote:
At least dredge up something current.

How about the torture of the prisoners at Guantanamo, or the civillian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq? How about the kidnapping and torture of Iraqis by US forces? How about the destruction of the homes and property of Iraqis by US forces as "retribution" for attacks by other Iraqis? Are these recent enough for you?
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:41 pm
hobitbob wrote:
perception wrote:
Dys

I'm sure they are---you seem to take some perverse pleasure in the accuracy of your information which you seem to think are arrows that will smite down anyone who you disagree with-----I say---so what---the Quakers are extreme in their beliefs from what I know.

I'm sure they are on your list of those who should be shot for treason, along with anyone else who doesn't favour fascism!


If I were to dignify the trash you write with a response it would be analogous to the gov't negotiating with a terrorist----it will never happen so please stop trying to provoke it. Take note that none of my posts were addressed to you except this one and it will be the last.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:46 pm
perception wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
perception wrote:
Dys

I'm sure they are---you seem to take some perverse pleasure in the accuracy of your information which you seem to think are arrows that will smite down anyone who you disagree with-----I say---so what---the Quakers are extreme in their beliefs from what I know.

I'm sure they are on your list of those who should be shot for treason, along with anyone else who doesn't favour fascism!


If I were to dignify the trash you write with a response it would be analogous to the gov't negotiating with a terrorist----it will never happen so please stop trying to provoke it.

Might that be becasue you were wrong about the Quakers, or because you would have to admit that you have frequently advocated fascist/totalitarian tactics?

Quote:
Take note that none of my posts were addressed to you except this one and it will be the last.

Promise? Very Happy
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 09:51 pm
I just grabbed one example out of the air. Any one of them will do when discussing whether or not the government would allow such a thing. Bush and Nixon are both extreme that way.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:15 pm
I am simply amazed at anti quaker stuff here. I have known a few quakers over the years. I am not one, the first sentence in the quote knocks me out as I am not religious.

But in action, they are among the sanest people I have known.

I was awake in the fifties. I do hate to see it rehappen.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:24 pm
ossobuco wrote:
I am simply amazed at anti quaker stuff here. I have known a few quakers over the years. I am not one, the first sentence in the quote knocks me out as I am not religious.

But in action, they are among the sanest people I have known.

I was awake in the fifties. I do hate to see it rehappen.



There is NO anti-quaker sentiment here. They have been identified as being extreme in their beliefs just as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and the anti- abortion loonies. The quakers abhor violence so are therefore not a threat to society but they remain extreme in their beliefs if you are not one of them.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:29 pm
perception wrote:
ossobuco wrote:
I am simply amazed at anti quaker stuff here. I have known a few quakers over the years. I am not one, the first sentence in the quote knocks me out as I am not religious.

But in action, they are among the sanest people I have known.

I was awake in the fifties. I do hate to see it rehappen.



There is NO anti-quaker sentiment here. They have been identified as being extreme in their beliefs just as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and the anti- abortion loonies.

By whom besides the government, who are attempting to quash dissent, and you? Perhaps if you were to actually investigate their beliefs and their actions, you might understand why lumping them in with the violent fundies is so yields only hilarity!

Quote:
The quakers abhor violence so are therefore not a threat to society but they remain extreme in their beliefs if you are not one of them.

Would these that you speak of be the rare carnivorous quakers, with big sharp pointy toothies? Wink Rolling Eyes
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:34 pm
joannedorel is one of these insidious Quakers. Perception done got me paranoid about her.
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:35 pm
Quote:
We can sleep without fear because the FBI IS looking at the guy next door.


And when that fellow next door WAS a terrorist, the FBI did what exactly??

Quote:
Minneapolis FBI agents investigating terrorism suspect Zacarias Moussaoui last August were severely hampered by officials at FBI headquarters, who resisted seeking search warrants and admonished agents for seeking help from the CIA, according to a letter from the general counsel for the FBI's Minneapolis field office.


FBI Headquarters crippled investigation
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 10:38 pm
Now Stillwater, you know those are Un-American thoughts! Report to Mr. Ashcroft for your spanking! Smile
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 11:08 pm
Mr Stillwater wrote:
Quote:
We can sleep without fear because the FBI IS looking at the guy next door.


And when that fellow next door WAS a terrorist, the FBI did what exactly??

Quote:
Minneapolis FBI agents investigating terrorism suspect Zacarias Moussaoui last August were severely hampered by officials at FBI headquarters, who resisted seeking search warrants and admonished agents for seeking help from the CIA, according to a letter from the general counsel for the FBI's Minneapolis field office.


FBI Headquarters crippled investigation


Damn ----this memo is dated 24 May 2002 and refers to actions that occured prior to 9/II------in case you can't correlate that significance it is prior to enactment of the Patriot Act which abolishes the stupid prohibition for the FBI to coordination their activities with other Law enforcement agencies. This little prohibition was as a direct result of the ACLU wanting to limit the activities of the FBI which of course found a head nodding audience prior to 9/II. In essence you could therefore more appropriately blame the the ACLU for 9/II than any agency of the gov't.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 11:11 pm
perception wrote:


Damn ----this memo is dated 24 May 2002 and refers to actions that occured prior to 9/II------in case you can't correlate that significance it is prior to enactment of the Patriot Act which abolishes the stupid prohibition for the FBI to coordination their activities with other Law enforcement agencies. This little prohibition was as a direct result of the ACLU wanting to limit the activities of the FBI which of course found a head nodding audience prior to 9/II. In essence you could therefore more appropriately blame the the ACLU for 9/II than any agency of the gov't.

Another clarion for totalitarian government from the far right. Rolling Eyes
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 11:26 pm
I'll worry about Quakers when they try to push their beliefs off onto me. We've got Mormons down here. That's enough to make anyone quiver - except another Mormon, of course.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 11:30 pm
roger wrote:
I'll worry about Quakers when they try to push their beliefs off onto me. We've got Mormons down here. That's enough to make anyone quiver - except another Mormon, of course.

Speaking of quivering Mormons, there was this girl I knew when I was at the University of Wyoming... Very Happy
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