Why are Atheists so Scary?

@GoshisDead,

Yes, I saw that and I see you qualify the atheists that are worrying are the intolerant ones. I just meant that in general I've noticed your posts tend to make sense to me or if I've disagreed I got your point of view. Don't remember what the issues were - posts are flying these days.

That's another point. Unless I'm on death's door, I'm reading a2k almost every day, and the new posts category has seemed to have around 3 pages of posts per 24 hours for a long time now, at least a couple of years. Now I think it's around six. Even a maniacal reader like me has a hard time keeping up.

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The operative word there is "seem"

If you don't feel you're whining, you're not.

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@wandeljw,

A wee bit too defensive, Wandel. Let me try again.

========================

I don't believe that is your decision to make, Wandeljw, though it is your right to voice an opinion on it.

I think [= my opinion] it was a good choice, given the ideas SS expressed.

[As an aside, and not necessarily to include you] It was not a good choice if you are from the homeboy crowd, bent on seeing it as y'all see it.

[Again as an aside, and not necessarily to include you or suggest that you have asked for one]

I didn't know A2K had a probationary period.

I've never heard anyone make the suggestion that a title was bad. Now I'm not saying that it hasn't happened.

Quote:

A title can set the tone of a thread. It is a poor choice in that sense.

I think that there have been more than enough suggestions as to the title's true intent, even from the OP. Big people can get over it.

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@JTT,

We all need to chill out, a little. Smile

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Yes, I saw that and I see you qualify the atheists that are worrying are the intolerant ones. I just meant that in general I've noticed your posts tend to make sense to me or if I've disagreed I got your point of view. Don't remember what the issues were - posts are flying these days.

That's another point. Unless I'm on death's door, I'm reading a2k almost every day, and the new posts category has seemed to have around 3 pages of posts per 24 hours for a long time now, at least a couple of years. Now I think it's around six. Even a maniacal reader like me has a hard time keeping up.

Well first, thanks very much, I appreciate the compliment.

And yes my original post was in response to the question which is an attempt to answer the percieved intolerance that caused SS anxiety, whil at the same time I was attempting to show that both sides of the fundamental argument are responsible for the same types of discrimination. It is a natural, albeit unsavory, thing. A person's ideology is not something rationally maintained. It is a mix of emotion, life experience, rational thought, and more. The natural way of attaining personal acceptance within a group and personal acceptance for a group, is traumatic and at times required dramatic expressions of belonging and ideological confirmation to others and self. I knew it would cause a hullaballoo when I posted it, and I suppose that exposes the troll in me lol, yet i thought it needed to be said.

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@GoshisDead,

Ah, but that wasn't the post I was arguing to myself about, it was a scolding thing later.

One of the differences, not just between the philo forum and me, but also between other pre-phil a2kers and me, is that I don't last on arguing/debate. I'm not interested past the first few circles on many issues. I read along to figure out what I think, and this does change from time to time, thus my a2k addiction re many subjects - but I've little interest in participating in the rondelay. Once in a while I pipe up, say on types of atheism when many think it is one belief they learned from a book or preacher, but mostly I don't engage. I'd rather talk about making your own lasagna noodles.

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@ossobuco,

Lol, i thought that needed to be said, although by the end of me ranting, no matter how well deserved, I still feel stupid. I guess I'm a river trout and some people are panther-martin bell spinners.

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@wandeljw,

I think that's a grand thought, Wandeljw.

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Hello I have thought on what I could have possibly done to offend any one.
Honestly tried to inspect myself and motives.
It is not ever my intention or reasoning and was not my intention and reasoning here to offend or to cause harm.

But that being said I think I could and should because of the hurt repackage the thread and at least try to show you closer what I meant,
if you would give me the chance and benefit of your doubt?
I would prefer to go from this new revised version.
Although I will still try to respond to all those who did not think I had hate and disrespect as my motivation and who have genuine concern for understanding and teaching me what I meant and what it was that I was 'really' asking for from you.
I will also go back and try to calm your fears where and if I can.

Thank you for your time, patience and please no hard feelings,
(but then I am still to read all you have said since last night and where I just left off when things were getting heated and out of my control or understanding so may not be able to say "no hard feelings" for very long.) (smile)

This is how I would rewrite the thread;
Title;
Why am I afraid of Atheists?

They scare me.
I try to rationalise it,
And have come up with these three possible rationalisations so far,

One; I am terrified of their truth taking away mine Truth.

Two; They usually when discussing theism (or being an active atheist) seem angry and anger generally scares me as well.

Three; They are usually harder and or more certain with their language where as mine is usually soft and or sometimes uncertain.

Could you please help me rationalise this irrational fear of mine, so as in the future I do not feel defeated by them before we even start conversing about God and be able to feel equally balanced and levelled to make for a wholly better discussion.
Thank you

That is how I would have it put were I to have the chance for a rewrite.
Is this any better or do you still think it sounds condemnatory or prejudicial?
In which case I really don't know what to do and would welcome your own rewrite and version of what it was you firstly thought it was I was saying and hopefully what you now think my true intentions were?

Thank you and please no hard feelings.
sometime sun

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@sometime sun,

sometime sun wrote:

This is how I would rewrite the thread;
Title;
Why am I afraid of Atheists?

They scare me.
I try to rationalise it,
And have come up with these three possible rationalisations so far,

One; I am terrified of their truth taking away mine Truth.

Two; They usually when discussing theism (or being an active atheist) seem angry and anger generally scares me as well.

Three; They are usually harder and or more certain with their language where as mine is usually soft and or sometimes uncertain.

Could you please help me rationalise this irrational fear of mine, so as in the future I do not feel defeated by them before we even start conversing about God and be able to feel equally balanced and levelled to make for a wholly better discussion.
Thank you

If my own feelings are anything to go by:

Neither Two nor Three would hold any terrors for you were it not for One.

Can you absorb the truth seen by atheists without losing the truth you already see? If so, then how some atheists feel, and how some atheists talk, becomes understandable and not hurtful or threatening.

But it's a big 'if'.

6 days ago, I composed a rant of 6 closely-typed A4 pages (carefully proofread and typeset in LaTeX2e) attempting to do just that, i.e. to absorb and formulate what I take to be a widespread atheistic worldview, rather than being absorbed by it.

(I was myself absorbed by this worldview roughly between the ages of 8 and 53, so it is quite absorbing, and quite absorbent!)

I almost posted my rant (some of it, a version of it) here, but I decided that it would be wise to withhold it for the time being.

I am not yet ready. Are you ready?

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@GoshisDead,

Tell me about panther martin bell spinners.. oh, and river trout. I figure I am part both.

(have you caught Roberta's Beautiful Animal thread?)

Sometime, I responded on the embarrassment thread.

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@Twirlip,

Minor correction (can no longer edit): my withheld rant wasn't written 6 days ago, it was written 13 days ago, while we were still at the old PF; and it was partly a response to (a lack of) responses to my articles at the old PF, although of course it has far deeper roots than that.

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@ossobuco,

Panther-martin salamander is a wonderful lure for fishing rainbow and cutthroat trout in Southern Idaho.

http://www.panthermartin.com/lures/Spinners/Salamander.aspx

http://fisheyeguyphotography.com/pics/trout-small/yellowstone-cutthroat-trout-photo-212.jpg

Cast these under some rills or a cutbank, if there's something hungy there it'll bite.

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@GoshisDead,

And that photo makes a great desktop background

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@sometime sun,

Well, I find that a whole lot better.

I am still quite stuck on:

Quote:

One; I am terrified of their truth taking away mine Truth.

Do you mean you fear being persuaded that atheism is the truth?

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@GoshisDead,

GoshisDead wrote:

The reason why you fear intolerant atheists is they call you stupid, ignorant, irrational etc... there is a social prestige premium on these things, no one wants to be called stupid ignorant and irrational. On the converse side the intolerant religious call atheists immoral, base, and currently unworthy of a diety's compassion. There is also a prestige premium on morality, worthyness, and sanctity. It really doesn't matter that the theist might be very intelligent and savvy, or the atheist is very moral and sancified in his realm. The issue here is not the belief system it is manner in which the practitioner approaches their own ideaology.

An intolerant person is going to draw lines about many things, especially if s/he feels threatened by the people who do not share their ideology. This is often the case in situations where one grows up in one ideological system and later changes. This change is never done without sincere and sustained internal trauma. This intolerance can also be an aversion to change when someone is raised in one system and is introduced to another but is so scared by it that they produce within themselevs or seek out externally an extreme reactionism or reactionist group in which to feel comfortable.

This intolerance happens in many more arenas than theology. It is one of the bases of racism, sexism, ageism, and every other culturally institutionalized form of discrimination. Both parties are participating in the root of discrimination, dehumanization. Oh you are stupid and irrational = you are less human than I because my ideology states that a human is a rational animal. You are immoral and unworthy = you are less human than I because human is one worthy of god's acceptance and guidance.

but life goes on I suppose.
I'll be awaiting the hate flames from both sides.

None from here...I think that is a very reasonable post.

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@edgarblythe,

Wow, Edgar.

I knew the US was hyper-religious for a western democracy, but would these be common experiences?

Would it be the same now?

I am fearful for my country because we have become a growing target for just that kind of awful, intolerant, christianity....many fundamentalist churches (which seem to have imported their ideas directly from the US?) have sprung up, and apparently we are second only to the US in their growth. I had no idea of this until recently, when I researched it.

I am not surprised we now have crusading atheists because the religious extremists amongst Muslims, Christians and Jews (and even some Hindus) are having such an impact on our lives...an impact I personally abhor.

I think that is why I felt angry about the thread title and several things SS said.

I don't agree with everything Dawkins says...but I am glad to see there is a counter-revolution going on!

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@dlowan,

It's all around me, here in Texas. I have a sister like that, only she moved to Oregon.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Once again, what was there to debate?

"Why are Atheists so Scary" is the quixotically spelled titular question. To which i respond--they're not.

So what was there to debate?

I think "why do I find atheists scary" is a legitimate thread here. We deal with all sorts of anxieties and personal issues here.

I agree it's not a simple debate question.

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The USA is diverse, but we have always had a strong fundamentalist right wing that spreads across most of the nation. When well organized, they can be very powerful. Right now, they are embedded in the Republican party. Their influence today is such that even Democrats do not act particularly liberal.

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Why are Atheists so Scary?

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