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Is The Earth On It's Last Legs???

 
 
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 08:56 am
Hi All,
According to your interpretation of catastrophic events now in irreversible motion (climate-change, deforestation, ozone depletion, resource-exhaustion, pollution, overpopulation, melting ice-caps, rising sea-levels, etc), How long do you think it will be before the societal integrity in your little part of the world falls apart?
And how long before the GLOBAL collapse of said?

Please give an approximate timeframe and reason for.

I look forward to your replies, and thank you all.
Mark...
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 4,866 • Replies: 96
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 09:57 am
@mark noble,
I favour Lovelock's "Gaia Hypothesis". The "earth as a system" will kill off as many million homo sapiens (or any other species) it takes in order to stabilise itself. Our puny attempts at "ecological control" are irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:08 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
Please give an approximate timeframe and reason for.


i'm not sure of the how, but this line from Everybody's Free (To Wear Sunscreen), is how i envision the when

The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that
never crossed your worried mind; the kind that blindside you at 4pm
on some idle Tuesday.
0 Replies
 
Icon
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:12 am
@mark noble,
Mankind, though stupid, is pretty good at fixing its mistakes at the very last moment.

Though I am reminded of the old story about the greatest batter of all time. He took his stance as the first pitch was thrown. The batter smiled and didn't swing. STRIKE ONE. The second pitch he did the same. STRIKE TWO. Now, with the game on the line, he kept his cool. The pitcher threw, the batter swung and WHACK! Strike three. You're [email protected]!

The batter waited for that third pitch "knowing" that he could hit the home run. Unfortunately, even the best are flawed.

The question is about the end of the world. My response is about the start of a new one. If the world truly does come to an end, mankind will find a way to survive. And we will find another home or another way of living. Read Farnham's Freehold by Robert A Heinlein. We will always find a way.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:23 am
@Icon,
Hi Icon,
Good analogy. Do you think it will take an event of catastrophic magnitude to make the difference? Will only in our darkest hour will we see and know (collectively)?
Thank you Icon
Mark...
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:28 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
Do you think it will take an event of catastrophic magnitude to make the difference? Will only in our darkest hour will we see and know (collectively)?


many conspiracy folks believe the illuminati plan such an event to institute a one world government, planned plague that will reduce the population, false flag alien invasion (not sure how they'd pull that one of myself)
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:34 am
@djjd62,
Hi djjd,
Mass collective hysteria is always only a suggestion away. New World Order? I don't think so. Anyway I'm a tad hand at bushcraft if it comes to it, and there are a lot of dense wildernesses where I'm from. British Columbia would be better though.
Best wishes djjd.
Mark...
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:40 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:
Mass collective hysteria is always only a suggestion away. New World Order? I don't think so. Anyway I'm a tad hand at bushcraft if it comes to it, and there are a lot of dense wildernesses where I'm from. British Columbia would be better though.


here in Southern Ontario i'm about half a days trip from some good wilderness and depending on travelling conditions, i could there and avoid most major population centres

one good thing about Detroit's economic decline, probably makes it less of a target for any man made shenanigans (foreign nukes for instance)
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 10:56 am
@djjd62,
Yeah, It is well placed. Hit the lakes, find an island, disappear for as long as it takes. Plenty of resources there too. I doubt the US will incur any nuclear strikes though. The chinese will only do so in defence and the N.Koreans - haven't got the ability (They pretend to, but they haven't).

Do you think it was the N.K's that wasted that S. Korean ship, or Illuminati-like Overlords?
Mark...
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 11:04 am
@mark noble,
We are making efforts to be "green" these days but it is nothing more than a trend word. The "green" corporations are a hit with the liberal aristocracy. The people who sign the checks love the prestige of being the new trend but I doubt it will last.

Historically, big change never comes without big conflict. As mankind has based almost every service on the consumption of natural resources AND we seem incapable of getting past idealogical difference on small things such as how a man chooses his faith or how resources are spread out, I do not see a change in the field of consumption without a massive and global regime change. This will inevitably cause conflict of epic proportions. The question is, once the dust settles and everything is done, will there be anyone left to carry on?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 11:13 am
I dont thing that we are going to have a sudden complete collapse of the Earths carrying capacity, but we will have a partial collapse that will cause a huge die off of the top of the food chain...humans. I am thinking a 50-90% die-off, timing is hard to predict, but less than 200 years I think.

The wild card for humans is fertility. It is dropping rapidly and no one knows why.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 11:25 am
@mark noble,
i'm pretty sure it was north korea, i don't think i'm quite ready yet to believe in the shadow government, but it's entertaining stuff (i love hearing the folks who do believe, tell their tales on shows like Coast to Coast AM)
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:05 pm
Lord the earth is in constant state of flux and long before humankind the earth had have periods of great warming with the CO2 content of the atmosphere being many times over what it is now and at least one period where the whole surface of the earth was cover with a mile plus ice sheet.

Only our short life spans both as individuals and so far as a species had allow us to think that the normal condition for the earth is a steady state but for evil mankind actions.

We may just be preventing a new ice age with mile thick ice sheets once more covering North American and by burning the hell out of our fossil fuels supplies we might just be saving our good friends in Canada.

In any case this whole issue is silly as far as blaming mankind for all the changes that is happening but as mother nature had proven she can be a real bitch we should do our best to get mankind spread out from this little planet.

roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:19 pm
@Icon,
I have only seen one copy of Farnham's Freehold in my life. I still own it.
Icon
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 12:25 pm
@roger,
After 4 years of searching, I have managed to collect a copy of every Heinlein writing available. Though Sci-Fi is not the most credible source for facts, it can be an excellent source for truth.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 01:30 pm

Icon wrote:

change. This will inevitably cause conflict of epic proportions. The question is, once the dust settles and everything is done, will there be anyone left to carry on?

Hi Icon,
Will there indeed?
Mark...
hawkeye10 wrote:
, timing is hard to predict, but less than 200 years I think.

The wild card for humans is fertility. It is dropping rapidly and no one knows why.

Hi Hawkeye,
I'd say 10 years max.
And the population increase is 1.3% - About 250,000 extra mouths to feed every day. That's up on last year's 1.25%.
Thank you, and have a lovely day.
Mark...
djjd62 wrote:

i'm pretty sure it was north korea, i don't think i'm quite ready yet to believe in the shadow government, but it's entertaining stuff (i love hearing the folks who do believe, tell their tales on shows like Coast to Coast AM)

Hi djjd,
Me too, I've got a great poem on conspiracies. I'll dig it out for you this week.
Best wishes.
Mark...
BillRM wrote:


In any case this whole issue is silly as far as blaming mankind for all the changes that is happening but as mother nature had proven she can be a real bitch we should do our best to get mankind spread out from this little planet.

Hi Bill,
This isn't about who's to blame - but it is our greedy nature and concept of self-worth I blame.
Thank you for repling though. Have a great day, sir.
Mark...
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 02:16 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

In any case this whole issue is silly as far as blaming mankind for all the changes that is happening but as mother nature had proven she can be a real bitch we should do our best to get mankind spread out from this little planet.


Bill, If I could afford to buy you a ticket to another planet I would happily do so.

I don't often get involved in these discussions because I get enough of it in one segment of my work life, but I can tell you that we are losing species at a horrendous rate and most of it is due to the activities of humans. BP is probably going to get the award for wiping out a good portion of the Gulf , it is certainly the end of Gulf sea turtles, miles of coral beds and the final death blow to wild manatees. How many species can collapse before man gets dragged into the abyss of extinction? Truth is we do not know, but we are probably going to find out sooner rather than later.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 02:34 pm
@Green Witch,
Hi Green witch,
Well said! The horse has truly bolted. And the bee, butterfly, cod, tiger, otter, salmon, badger, sparrow, eagle, hamster, carpetmoth, polar bear, penguin, cormorant, albatross, dung beetle, wasp, etc etc etc.
Have a spellbound day.
Mark...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 05:19 pm
@Green Witch,
Mother nature had any numbers of great die outs killing 99 percent of all animal life on the planet. Beside countless minor die outs that was still far greater then mankind sins to date.

What we may be doing or may not be doing is small potato compare to what mother nature had done times after times long before mankind was around to blame.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Jun, 2010 05:41 pm
@mark noble,
My my the web of life is doom of course we was not around when good old nature had done things to the web of life that compare to our deeds like a firecracker compare to a nuclear bomb.

You know nothing is sadder and sillier at the same time as people who have no understanding of human history or the must longer history of the planet itself.

The current oil spill is a minor event and take note oil had been spilling into the oceans without mankind aid for long enough that bacteria had evolved that live off it.


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