Thumbs down, Up yours

@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

Here's a suggestion for Robert to resolve the whole mess:

I will chew on those some more, but at first blush they really don't seem like better solutions than what is planned to be honest.

As an example the "font's ink color" idea is a direction that I personally think is better served by letting people set the option to hide the voting for them entirely. Trying to split the difference with invisible ink is a UI direction I think would be less usable.

Edit: I forgot to mention tag search btw, yes that needs to move. Current plans are to put it on the home page.

1 Reply

@Butrflynet,

Butrflynet wrote:

Here's a suggestion for Robert to resolve the whole mess:

I hope the mess was here already and I have not kicked up unfortunates for myself.

Butrflynet wrote:

Just change the font's ink color of the numbering system on the topic threads to the same as the background color so they are invisible unless someone purposely highlights the box to see what the number is. It is up to you whether or not to leave the color as it is for the numbering system on posts within threads so people can still use them to agree/disagree/hide posts as they choose without folks taking it personally.

Again it is not an issue with numbers, if no one likes it no one likes it, I am not banging on peoples doors for numbers, I am just inspecting the form of the forum and looking to see what your understandings of the feature is, if to to be able to adopt your attitude as my own.
Which I must say you are all doing a good job in making me see I need not bother worrying so.

Butrflynet wrote:

With this change, the self-moderation system will still work as it does to allow all the flavors of personalized moderation (or non-moderation) of the forum and will eliminate the offensive nature of the visual numbering system.

Again it is not a matter of graphics, it is a matter of being lessened for no good or real reason other than someone does not want to bother with you.
I really don't mind if I get a thumbs down for someone thinking my work poor, I would love an explanation as I think it basic decency if you judge someone to show why you came to the conclusion but I understand not everyone has the convictions of their courage. This is personality I understand it cannot always be helped.

The ONLY real issue I have really is that I don't see why ones position should be decided on by someone who either cannot be bothered or does not want comprehend you.
Am I totally crazy for thinking and feeling this?
If I get a resounding answer of 'Yes' for this I will swiftly put it aside.
I really do not wish to waste your time unless that is what you come to me for. (sun smiles seriously)

Butrflynet wrote:

Sounds like the only reason many of us use the Popular sorting list is to access the tag search tool there. Move the tag search elsewhere and eliminate the Popular list.

Yes that'll work, eliminate the gripe at its source.
But I suspect the popular area is predominantly for those who are new to the forum and have no way of navigating around. I know that's why I have used it and also to see what is going on in others areas so as not to just stick to my own corner.

Many thanks, you make some genuinely logical rational points and available resolutions for my 'problem'.
sometime sun

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Robert is sometimes straight up wrong, but I am still here which should tell you a lot about him. And a2k is a fantastic place, has been for awhile, and while I lack confidence that he will keep it great Robert should always be given credit for what he has accomplished.

I'm wrong all the time. But I wish you'd wait until you actually see a2k not becoming a fantastic place before trying to insist that the direction we are taking it will spell out its demise.

The concerns you have about popularity just aren't manifesting themselves and if they were we'd want to react to it. You've become convinced that certain features would have certain impacts on community culture but I don't think you understand their impact very clearly.

Now you seem to be almost conceding this, by saying that the features are evil but doom doesn't happen because the features are being used, but I wish you'd realize that this is essentially saying you were wrong, and that predicting the negative use was inaccurate. Now you are saying that the features are evil but they aren't being used enough to hurt us and that shows me how little you know about the forum dynamics (and the forum in general, the other day you claimed we didn't have moderators and while they remain low-key we actually do) because these kinds of features are never going to break the very strong "new posts > topic > new posts" cycle forum regulars use. They tend to consume large parts of the content and don't need it curated.

But curation isn't all bad. Next time you do a Google search, think about whether you want them to rank the results they way they do (essentially through links on the web counting as votes towards popularity) or if you want a random selection of the web. Think about whether you want a spam filter or not.

We give people the tools to curate if they want to, but only those who were going to curate anyway will tend to use them. These features simply don't have the impact you fear they will have on the site, they are mild tweaks to basic issues of content sorting and filtering and are simply not going to bring about the site's doom like you incessantly predict.

Think about it, instead of being so convinced that your predictions are right try to approach it like science. I do, and the evidence just doesn't support your claims.

0 Replies

@sometime sun,

sometime sun wrote:

The ONLY real issue I have really is that I don't see why ones position should be decided on by someone who either cannot be bothered or does not want comprehend you.
Am I totally crazy for thinking and feeling this?

I don't think the concern is crazy, just misplaced. Voting really doesn't have that much impact on any of us. It's possible to in the most unpopular 0.1% of the site and not even notice.

The impact of the system just isn't as strong as you fear, it has as much impact as credence you put in the numbers in other words. If you see a post voted down it will affect you only as much as you are willing to let it.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Mame wrote:

dj, I think it might involve a bit of rolfing.

I'm actually wearing girl underwear right now.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Oh I am also highly needy, this may go some way to explaining my gripe. (sun smile)

that is great, just have the enough self respect to never let people talk you out of being true to yourself, because many will try to do so....

I am amongst things and some a philosopher,
I need and welcome to be talked down and out of many things.
Some are good at this some not so good.

My truth is not alone always the best,
but
always best truth is mine not alone.
Even if the truth is at times very lonely.
Do you see?

Have a nice day or night.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Edit: I forgot to mention tag search btw, yes that needs to move. Current plans are to put it on the home page.

Hooray!

0 Replies

@sometime sun,

sometime sun wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Quote:
I care about popularity because I need to be critiqued, I am an aspiring writer and unless I either get the inspiration or exposure my place here is mute, because I will not be getting the training and experience I so sorely need.

I suspect you will get feedback in the form of comments ....

Here is hoping.
This is the ONLY feedback I am interested in.
I must again impress that I do not rate the worth and merit of my musings and 'work' by any number, just that I am concerned someone may miss it if not rightfully placed.

Does no one see my point in any fashion?
It is not a nice thing to do this?
It may be easier on the work load of the admin but it gives a load of responsibility to the people who may not know how to properly use it?
If not seen from my side I hope you do understand this is just the ramblings of a highly nervous and sensitive wanderer looking to make a home before he blows away.

Thank you highly for your input.
sometime sun

I noticed you are an anxious sort.

Takes one to know one.

You know, my guess is you do a lot of ruminating about stuff that worries you and relieve that by talking (or posting) about it.

My suggestion would be to chill, make a decision to just give it some time and see how it all pans out. Your worries are just passing thoughts and you can watch them go by without getting too involved in them.

It's all new and we all know how tough it can be finding yourself in a new world. Thing is, the shock of the new will settle, and THEN you can start really assessing how much the stuff that worries you now will be an issue.
I am not sure if the musings you speak of are creative or philosophical writing?

If creative, you may find there is quite a small audience for that here, but it tends to be a pleasant and close one....though if Philosophy Forum had a larger audience for that hopefully it will follow you here.

People won't miss your writing if they use tags to navigate and you tag it well.

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

I would not easily categorise my self as sane or easily disgusted.
However if I see a lie I am sure to try to shed some light and 'truth' not just on the lie but on the liar.
This post put me off my tea.

Yes I would greatly appreciate any mission statement from Robert to see where his ideals are taking us.
It has been in my experience that police are the good guys and there may be no way around having them.
Beautiful ideal from the ring of it. Need the whole anthem to feel comfortable.
I am giving it all a chance and have even tried to calm some of my friends away from knee jerk reactions.
I just want to love you all and if I happen to be loved by anyone in the process I may just get into heaven,
or away from hell, at the least.

Thanks greatly, sometime sun

1 Reply

@sometime sun,

It's gonna be hard to love us all!

I'd try very hard to remember not to hug Robert. He goes all funny.

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@hawkeye10,

Absolutely the only way I roll,
Is there a right or wrong way to sell, I mean tell the truth?
Is there a right or wrong way to sell or tell a lie?

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@Robert Gentel,

Thank you so much for this attention to detail it has bee a real eye opener and very very useful.
You sound as if you really do have scope and a better brighter future for in in mind and matters beyond my full comprehension.
This quote of you is basically all what I am interested in at the moment.
"If you mean something like when voting down you select a "reason" (e.g. spam, trolling, flaming etc) it's something I've seriously considered. I even considered an option of "not interested" that wouldn't count as a vote."
Not interested, no vote.
Hide this from me but no foul.
I suppose it is a little to much to ask that someone explain themselves for an aversion as so many seem to have so many.
But as said I am just sore because I am in desperate need of analysis and constructive critique and this feature just gave the sense that you can be critical but have no compulsion to justify yourself.
Back home you could not be taken seriously if you did not at least try to if you denied something to justify yourself you were quickly no longer taken seriously.
It just felt as weak willed and bad form but then I started this topic and found that it was not as bad as I had thought.
I am grateful for all of you and of your attention that has shed some more light on someone still groping around in the dark.
I should not have been so overly emotional about it, but that is kind of how I roll. I am a emotionally rationalising reactional, person.
If I could change the title of this topic I would.
But it just cried out for the down to be countered with am up.
I still don't like it very much, something about the whole action of a negative gets me confused.
I have not really gotten out there just yet so am still unaware of many features and nuances but am now fairly confident in the spirit of this place to help someone who is in need.
And this makes me feel that little bit more secure.
I will in the future take my time but this still has been a great exercise for me today and I thank each and every visitor and contributor for making me feel viable if not justifiable in my reaction.
I am a slow but keen learner and just cant wait to really start to try and prove I am worthy of partnership in such an ideology as this and what you are attempting sounds truly inspirational if not totally original.
Because from what you have described this is the word that springs to mind PARTNERSHIP.
You have my best wishes that it is a viable construct.
And while I am here you have the fidelity of someone who wants nothing more than to call this place his home.
All the best and if there is anything you need help with just let me know and I will always give it and you my best.
sometime sun.

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@Robert Gentel,

Yes the ineffectual me is starting to surface, thanks for the reply.

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I've been on A2k a very log time.
I NEVER look at/see the voting/thumbs or numbers.

I liken it too a bloody great big road sign in a small country town. sure it sticks out for a while when its new then just becomes important ONLY to those who need it.

Any kind of rating system is only any good to those who agree or disagree with the rating given.
Only if you want to prom queen do you need the votes.

1 Reply

@dlowan,

You seem to have a better grasp on me than I do.
Yes I think I will stick with my philosophy area for the time being and acclimatise, but this has been a great salve to someone who likes to keep busy and writing.
There are many things I do not understand and will still come to you guys if I need to but as said will give it patience before reactionary posts in the future.
I still don't totally get or accept it though.
There has to be a better scale than the rubbish bin.
I recycle nearly everything.
But I do also see clearly there is a definite honourable goal here.
I suppose this goes some way into showing me I don't have as much faith in my fellow men as I would have once protested.

Thanks for your patience and care.

sometime sun

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@dadpad,

I am just going to show my new members badge and hope you can forgive a cantankerous fool for not trying harder to fit in before I started to try to change things.

As I can now see the rating system is totally worthless I will move me and my wears on.

Good to greet you all today though, its been a trip.
sometime sun

1 Reply

@sometime sun,

Quote:

As I can now see the rating system is totally worthless

Not totally worthless. It's worth something to those who find some value in it.

Quote:

hope you can forgive a cantankerous fool for not trying harder to fit in before I started to try to change things.

I value your opinion. I'm glad you are here

2 Replies

@dadpad,

Quote:

Not totally worthless. It's worth something to those who find some value in it.

It has a great deal of potential negative worth, so it is not worthless...

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Potential negative worth,
would that not mean 'baseless'? fundamental-less?
What has less worth than the valueless?
What has less value than the worthless?

Foundation-less?

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@dadpad,

I am, believe it or not, glad I am here as well.

0 Replies

Thumbs down, Up yours

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