What is God?

This is why the concept of God is so hard to understand now, because most people are still trying to picture a God that is a being among the many of us. God is the "One". He is not contingent as we are, he is independent and infinite.

I liked your post. I can respect your position. God as the One is a concept I can relate to. But do you mean what Spinoza means, or something like it? That all men and nature taken together are this One? That God includes all? You say he is independent, which speaks against this. What, then, do you mean by the "One"? I ask earnestly as I consider this a good topic of conversation.

xris, what I think I understand of your reasoning is not good. You talk of the outside of the singularity, but it has no outside. The bubble, the singularity of which you speak is space-time. You seem stuck on seeing things in space where there is no space, seeing things in time where there is no time. Maybe we should assume that you'll never understand me nor I understand you (although we understand each other better than before at least), and move on to other topics. What do you think?

Samm

We're not so far apart. The singularity was the beginning of the Big Bang. It was not the initial state of existence which immediately preceded the Big Bang and in which there was no singularity. The initial state of being is outside of time and space. They proceed from it but do not extend through it. So yes, there is another existence outside of this one (the universe and the "singularity" in which it began). Why do I say this? Because the universe cannot have its origin in non-existence (absolute nothing); its origin must have had the potential being of the entire universe--or more--in its nature.

Samm

Im glad you say you dont know what exists in a black hole, the same can be said of the singularity that gave us the BB. You may notice that the nothing we DONT see, in the black hole, holds more than we can imagine

Your talking from a view of certainty and nothing is certain. There is no evidence of something that has always existed, so your speculating. Peeking into what may be is what I have been exploring but your certainties are ignoring my possibilities.

Tell me how long has this universe existed? the time is not important, what is important is the fact it started with nothing to judge it from, no point of reference. If the other side of eternity is occupied by nothing , are we measuring the universe as if it was eternity? Its all in the mind nothing and something.

XRIS In my opinion the singularity, although the start point and originator of our particular universe, began to happen from another source realm or unknown dimension.

"The universe is not everything", it does not contain all of existence but is only a fragment of a greater reality, still to be explored and understood by mankind. The universe albeit, on a hugely greater scale than human existence is nevertheless subject to the unstoppable effects of entropy and like us must age, decay and die, in a cold dark future in a time so unimaginable vast that it is beyond human comprehension

XRIS In my opinion the singularity, although the start point and originator of our particular universe, began to happen from another source realm or unknown dimension.

"The universe is not everything", it does not contain all of existence but is only a fragment of a greater reality, still to be explored and understood by mankind. The universe albeit, on a hugely greater scale than human existence is nevertheless subject to the unstoppable effects of entropy and like us must age, decay and die, in a cold dark future in a time so unimaginable vast that it is beyond human comprehension

You may believe that Alan but there is no evidence for it. Even if you imagine another realm it still has the problem of originality. When you imagine the elements our bodies are made of , we ourselves carry the secrets in our very being. Have they existed forever or is there a point when they came into being. I cant imagine something that exists not existing. This universe is so amazing it never fails to give me goose bumps, its mysteries are an adventure that we can all contemplate.

xris no matter what we believe about the universe and God we are always presented with the enigma of Infinite Regression

xris no matter what we believe about the universe and God we are always presented with the enigma of Infinite Regression

Infinite regression is an untenable explanation to me. For one thing, the universal expansion and cosmic microwave background strongly suggest that the universe had a beginning about 13.7 billion years ago. To suggest that this universe simply comes from another universe, which comes from yet another, and so on, is conceivable. But if the universes are causally linked, it suggests an infinite regression over infinite time, time that has no beginning. This means that every point in time is an infinite distance along the continuum and that an infinite number of explanations is required to completely explain our existence.

(If I explain my existence by my parents, and they explain their existence by their parents, but their parents have no explanation, then my parents and I inherit that lack of explanation. Thus every antecedent of every entity must be explained to fully explain the entity, and infinite regression requires infinite explanation.)

But if space and time are only properties of each universe, then it is reasonable to postulate some state of being outside the context of space and time which might be a causal explanation for all universes that may exist. If something exists outside of time, then it cannot have a beginning or end or any other property of time. Therefore, it would simply exist or not exist, and if it did not exist, there would be no explanation for any universe. Its existence then would be a necessary existence.

Samm

I (Atheist) was wondering what God is for the Theists, what is their Definition of God?

Infinite regression is an untenable explanation to me. For one thing, the universal expansion and cosmic microwave background strongly suggest that the universe had a beginning about 13.7 billion years ago. To suggest that this universe simply comes from another universe, which comes from yet another, and so on, is conceivable. But if the universes are causally linked, it suggests an infinite regression over infinite time, time that has no beginning. This means that every point in time is an infinite distance along the continuum and that an infinite number of explanations is required to completely explain our existence.

(If I explain my existence by my parents, and they explain their existence by their parents, but their parents have no explanation, then my parents and I inherit that lack of explanation. Thus every antecedent of every entity must be explained to fully explain the entity, and infinite regression requires infinite explanation.)

But if space and time are only properties of each universe, then it is reasonable to postulate some state of being outside the context of space and time which might be a causal explanation for all universes that may exist. If something exists outside of time, then it cannot have a beginning or end or any other property of time. Therefore, it would simply exist or not exist, and if it did not exist, there would be no explanation for any universe. Its existence then would be a necessary existence.

Samm

13.7 billion years ago is the number I have read and heard from several reliable sources. I think it was determined by WMAP data. Anyway, I get it from the cosmologists who study the stuff.

Samm

But do you understand my problem? Its this constant nagging problem if there was nothing before how can you measure it? Something can't start from nothing. You cant have nothing then something,nothing does not exist. If we cant observe a before or even cause then why is it 13 billion years old. We are seriously missing something here, that we either can't understand or answer.

Cosmologists making the statement, of claiming its age, is an admission that the universe is a closed event with a precise age, originating from nothing. Its an admission of creation. Can cosmologist in reality say this? It might be that time has been changing or the observable events are only just that and it could have existed for eternity. We always have this eternity problem, either it is a chain of causes and events or this universe has existed for ever. WE must come to the conclusion that we are missing a certain subtle certainty that reconciles these paradoxes, Ive tried but it appears Ive got it wrong or no one understands me.

xris we should separate the finite universe and the idea of Infinite Existence. There has always been something that we can be sure. Exactly what that Existence is will lead us into an infinite unanswerable eternal debate