0
   

Time is it moving slower than it was in the young universe?

 
 
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 10:50 am
@xris,
xris;160326 wrote:
Alans saying events cause time, time does not cause events. When the last event occurs time will cease to exist.


hmmm..interesting explain.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:06 am
@Uplifter,
Uplifter;160441 wrote:
Please could you tell me which is your answer.
What you mean is an explenation, you actually got an answer.

Uplifter;160441 wrote:
Of course, but that is the nature of science.
No, that's a theory, a theory is not a fact.

Uplifter;160441 wrote:
That's your choice as a non-scientist. However it is a fact.
Aha? I never remember any experiment proving that, sure in the physic classes we made retard experiments suggesting gravity but there Iirc hasn't been done any actual serious experiments proving it beyond reasonable doubt.

Uplifter;160441 wrote:
Maybe I will, but not in this thread. At the moment we are talking about science, not scepticism.
I hope you will have pity on me and do it, out of a good heart.

Uplifter;160441 wrote:
I find this an interesting question. Especially because we have been measuring the distance from the Earth to the moon and it is growing. So when did they decide it was 10 meters out of place?
Honestly I don't know, it as TV doc, notorisly unrelyable and inaccurate, however I think it's due to the rising water lvls, also increase in imbalance of earh rotation due to water damns, big cities ..etc.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:11 am
@HexHammer,
May bee U dropped U;Rolex ?:bigsmile:
0 Replies
 
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:18 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160447 wrote:
What you mean is an explenation, you actually got an answer.

I asked you to explain the magnus effect with reference to Venus and Uranus. You 'answered' with this:-

Quote:
Lol? ..gas planets? Gas planets and magnus effect acts differently than solid planets


I pointed out that Venus was not a gas planet. So now could you answer the question, or if you like 'explain', how the magnus effect works with reference to Venus and Uranus.


HexHammer;160447 wrote:
No, that's a theory, a theory is not a fact.

I agreed with your point, and then qualified it with my statement. So what does "No", have to do with any of those responses?


HexHammer;160447 wrote:
Aha? I never remember any experiment proving that, sure in the physic classes we made retard experiments suggesting gravity but there Iirc hasn't been done any actual serious experiments proving it beyond reasonable doubt.


Are you contesting that scientists do not use mathematics to describe the effect of dark matter? I think you are tying yourself into knots.


HexHammer;160447 wrote:
I hope you will have pity on me and do it, out of a good heart.

Maybe, but not today.

HexHammer;160447 wrote:
Honestly I don't know, it as TV doc, notorisly unrelyable and inaccurate, however I think it's due to the rising water lvls, also increase in imbalance of earh rotation due to water damns, big cities ..etc.


I don't believe that has much to do with it. Please could you post the actual article explaining that the moon and the Earth are 10 metres 'out', and then I can read it. Maybe then it will be clearer.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:46 am
@JPhil,
JPhil;160444 wrote:
hmmm..interesting explain.
Im not sure what you require. Time does not occur without activity. Space does not exist without events. No event , no space , no time.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:56 am
@Uplifter,
Uplifter;160454 wrote:
I asked you to explain the magnus effect with reference to Venus and Uranus. You 'answered' with this:-

I pointed out that Venus was not a gas planet. So now could you answer the question, or if you like 'explain', how the magnus effect works with reference to Venus and Uranus.
Yes, and even that I answerd, which you have ignored.

Uplifter;160454 wrote:
I agreed with your point, and then qualified it with my statement. So what does "No", have to do with any of those responses?
?

Uplifter;160454 wrote:
Are you contesting that scientists do not use mathematics to describe the effect of dark matter? I think you are tying yourself into knots.
Math is math and only really relates to theory, facts are facts and rely on irrefudeble evidence which math alone can't provide. Too often we have had theories about this and that about planets and moons, when NASA actually send a prope up to a planet/moon usually we were proved wrong.

Uplifter;160454 wrote:
I don't believe that has much to do with it. Please could you post the actual article explaining that the moon and the Earth are 10 metres 'out', and then I can read it. Maybe then it will be clearer.
Dude all the time you plague me with your poor preception of things, I just wrote it was a TV doc, how can I link to that? ..besides you linked to a bad site with root kits.
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:28 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160473 wrote:
Yes, and even that I answerd, which you have ignored.


OK so you want to go round in circles. Again, here are your replies:-
HexHammer wrote:

So you have no scientific disproof? Well anyways, my thesis is not backed up by scientific proof, but merely a theory.

Fine then you explain to me.

Currently astronomers claims the moon of the earth are 10 meters out of place, explain that, I explain it with magnus effect, but that's just me

I did infact answer your question, maybe not satisfyingly.

Lol? ..gas planets? Gas planets and magnus effect acts differently than solid planets.


Which is your answer/explain to the specific question "how the magnus effect works with reference to Venus and Uranus."?

HexHammer;160473 wrote:
?

Look, I'm not going to go back and forth through this thread, just because you don't appear to be able to follow what it is you are typing.

HexHammer;160473 wrote:
Math is math and only really relates to theory, facts are facts and rely on irrefudeble evidence which math alone can't provide. Too often we have had theories about this and that about planets and moons, when NASA actually send a prope up to a planet/moon usually we were proved wrong.

Math makes predictions that we can qualify with scientific fact. Einsteins equations made predictions, that have since been proven correct. Such is also true of other mathematicians like Paul Dirac predicting anti-matter etc.
Unfortunately it is not possible to travel to another galaxy, or even out of our own to prove some predictions that mathematics has made. This does not discount mathematics as the best way we can describe the cosmos.

HexHammer;160473 wrote:
Dude all the time you plague me with your poor preception of things, I just wrote it was a TV doc, how can I link to that? ..besides you linked to a bad site with root kits.

So you are suggesting that you heard something and you now suggest is a qualified theory, but that theory has never been published, peer-reviewed or even debated. Are you sure you weren't watching Doctor Who?
I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find a website relating to the documentary. Or if you are really stuck you could just try Google.

Besides I do not have a 'poor perception of things', you are just incredibly bad at explaining any of your "theories". Maybe next time when you propose an argument, you make sure you can qualify it first.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:31 pm
@Uplifter,
Uplifter seems you are just a clever troll being a pain in the ass, I'll put you on ignore.
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:35 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160503 wrote:
Uplifter seems you are just a clever troll being a pain in the ass, I'll put you on ignore.


Well that's rich. I offer to help you understand something, to which you suggest I am a troll.

I have already received PM's from others on this forum telling me about your antics. I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. My loss it seems.

Please put me on ignore. Hopefully then you won't accidentally learn anything about a subject you clearly know nothing about.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:44 pm
@Uplifter,
Uplifter;160507 wrote:
Well that's rich. I offer to help you understand something, to which you suggest I am a troll.

I have already received PM's from others on this forum telling me about your antics. I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. My loss it seems.

Please put me on ignore. Hopefully then you won't accidentally learn anything about a subject you clearly know nothing about.
Consider yourself initiated and grateful. I at least was grateful for your education. Thanks xris.
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 12:48 pm
@xris,
xris;160519 wrote:
Consider yourself initiated and grateful. I at least was grateful for your education. Thanks xris.


Thanks xris. I was beginning to lose faith in this forum. However you have brought a smile to my face.
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:02 pm
@xris,
Laughing:popcorn::arguing:
xris;160466 wrote:
Im not sure what you require. Time does not occur without activity. Space does not exist without events. No event , no space , no time.

Time 4 a SpaceVent !
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:16 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
The OP is an interesting argument. I've been thinking about it all day. I was wondering how you could qualify that time has slowed down with the expansion of the universe.

We can tell that things further away from us are accelerating faster because of the increased redshift we see in the light emitted from those objects.
What puzzles me is that the light that reaches our equipment has travelled for billions of years....from the past. So would that redshifted light be travelling faster towards us?
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:26 pm
@Uplifter,
Uplifter;160544 wrote:
The OP is an interesting argument. I've been thinking about it all day. I was wondering how you could qualify that time has slowed down with the expansion of the universe.

We can tell that things further away from us are accelerating faster because of the increased redshift we see in the light emitted from those objects.
What puzzles me is that the light that reaches our equipment has travelled for billions of years....from the past. So would that redshifted light be travelling faster towards us?
I would have to give that much thought. Surely the speed of light is constant ? If the object is moving away from us, the difference in speed would be what we observe.:perplexed:.... Or the speed of it moving away is not relevant to the light reaching us.:perplexed:.... If it was travelling at the speed of light away from us could the light ever leave the object??? I dont knowwwwww.:perplexed:
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 01:43 pm
@xris,
:lol:Brilliant!

.....:perplexed:
A photon has no mass and travels at the speed of light. It is going so fast that our perception of it is that it no longer experiences time. Therefore it exists where it is, where it is going, and where it has come all at the same time.
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 07:12 pm
@Alan McDougall,
How time flowed in the early universe in the infinite gravity of the singularity defies both physics and logic, because due to Einstein it should have stood still
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 11:13 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;161034 wrote:
How time flowed in the early universe in the infinite gravity of the singularity defies both physics and logic, because due to Einstein it should have stood still
If time stood still, how can anything evolve? Therefore Einstein must be wrong in his preception of time.
Zetetic11235
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 12:41 am
@Uplifter,
Time as the distance between events would not be something that can be measured in terms of speed by definition. Imagine, if you will if time, as a whole, sped up within a 'box' or 'frame'. It would not be noticeable from within the frame since the fundamental particles would have sped up in their paths and interactions, and all things constituent of them will have adjusted their processes accordingly. Time can only 'speed up' relative to something; that is, what you mean by time 'speeding up' in a segment of space is just a confusing (or confused Smile) way of stating that all of the processes in that segment of space increase speed -relative to something, as otherwise it would not be detectable- in a uniform manner.

I think that thinking of it as time 'speeding up' is somewhat ambiguous and confusing.

Now, I think you would do best for yourself by learning about brane cosmology. I know I would, and I hope I get some time to do so. Briefly; from what I understand, brane cosmology conjectures that our 'universe' is made of a cluster of branes which are somehow derived as a model for the fundamental forces. Gravity is considered to be a force that 'leaks' out of the brane cluster that is our 'universe'. I believe this is where Michio Kaku goes wild conjecturing a multi-verse and some vast expanse where the gravity leaks -into-. I'm fairly certain that the current understanding is less fantastical than what Kaku presents, though I would still find it very interesting.

The reason that I think this ties in is that it gives a theoretical framework that can at least produce a tentatively accurate representation of the physical situation. It does little good to chat about it when there is a rigorous language describing it and none of us know it. Perhaps if we could wrangle a physicist onto the forums we would be in better shape Very Happy.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 12:47 am
@Alan McDougall,
Time in itself does not exist Imo, that "proof" which Einstein provided with 2 different messurement with clocks on ground and flown, is just saying time gets distorted by heat and rocking of boats with pendulum clocks.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 06:34 am
@Zetetic11235,
Zetetic11235;161131 wrote:
Time as the distance between events would not be something that can be measured in terms of speed by definition. Imagine, if you will if time, as a whole, sped up within a 'box' or 'frame'. It would not be noticeable from within the frame since the fundamental particles would have sped up in their paths and interactions, and all things constituent of them will have adjusted their processes accordingly. Time can only 'speed up' relative to something; that is, what you mean by time 'speeding up' in a segment of space is just a confusing (or confused Smile) way of stating that all of the processes in that segment of space increase speed -relative to something, as otherwise it would not be detectable- in a uniform manner.

I think that thinking of it as time 'speeding up' is somewhat ambiguous and confusing.

Now, I think you would do best for yourself by learning about brane cosmology. I know I would, and I hope I get some time to do so. Briefly; from what I understand, brane cosmology conjectures that our 'universe' is made of a cluster of branes which are somehow derived as a model for the fundamental forces. Gravity is considered to be a force that 'leaks' out of the brane cluster that is our 'universe'. I believe this is where Michio Kaku goes wild conjecturing a multi-verse and some vast expanse where the gravity leaks -into-. I'm fairly certain that the current understanding is less fantastical than what Kaku presents, though I would still find it very interesting.

The reason that I think this ties in is that it gives a theoretical framework that can at least produce a tentatively accurate representation of the physical situation. It does little good to chat about it when there is a rigorous language describing it and none of us know it. Perhaps if we could wrangle a physicist onto the forums we would be in better shape Very Happy.
With current cosmological understanding it conflicts with the idea that the greater the mass the slower time becomes. Your only giving theoretical musings not accepted science or cosmological witness. The problem still exists. We had a time when time did not exist what made it tick?
 

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