If you want your observer included in this debate lets have one. One observer watching the two of us acting out our lives, on two different planets. We both have watches recording our progress and we have our observer. For me and you time is relative , we never see time other than our progress through life, one moment at a time. We cant relate it to each other but what does the observer see?
Two people paying obsessive attention to their watches.
Gravity is a mystery, no one denies its inability to be understood but we have to observe its influence and recognise its effects. Can you honestly say we are not observing two time frames? I'm not asking for an opinion on what it is but what it does.
Yes I can. And,It attracts gravity-based material. All physical things. Nothing physical can escape it.
Sorry for my lack of interpretation of your wishes. I wish the well, xris..
You need never apologise to me, sir. I am apparently "oddly pleasant" according to recent analysis.
But one man's odd is another's even. And I expect as much.
Since our first conversation, I have been floating about the site, trying to establish certain definites. I'm not sure that I'm succeeding awfully well.
So I'll, for now, stand by my own principle beliefs.
Excuse the "watch pun", my humour precedes me sometimes.
What similarities do the planets share? ie; orbital velocity, solar velocity, gravitational force and mass, if any? or are they identical on all fronts?
Thank you and journey well, sir.
Havnt read sorry keen for an answer though, is time percieption?
So maybe it would be impossible to tell because our perciption changes with graviety in terms of evolution. I dont know how to explain properly haha
Hmm So for example says the speed of time doubled could our percieption of time just be changed accordingly as if it hadnt changed.
How can we really tell how fast and slow things happen when it is just in comparison to out human reflexes?
perhaps other organisms have a different reality of time?
Or is time a set concept?
Like Eistein said, if you can explain it simple you dont know it well enough.
The higher or stronger the gravity force the slower time flows and that statement is a fact of science
Time has no physical properties. It is a measurement the human species created to interpret occurences on a rational level.
We allocate time to occurences, and base it on the spin of the earth in relationship to the sun.
The earths diameter is approx' 24,000 miles, it rotates at approx' 1,000mph. and we call one rotation "a day".
Suggesting that it can move faster or slower is irrational.
A day can appear to go slowly for me, and rapidly for you. Because the events therein affect us in accordance to our own perceptions.
1) A season (spring) is a period of time. Gravity cannot make spring any faster or slower, because spring is an imaginary label we apply to a non-existing event (other than in our minds, of course.). We can suggest that spring went quickly, but it actually took as long as it took.
2) Just because a black hole swallows light itself, doesn,t mean it alters time. Light is matter and does exist. If you were in the event horizon of black hole, time would seem to fluctuate, but this is because light is moving differently, and we measure time by light, because it is the fastest matterial we can perceive.
3) light can speed up or slow down, but time remains constantly fixed between the most infinitessimal particles within the continuum.
4) just because a black hole affects the material it swallows, doesn,t mean it affects all material - therefore, the material beyond the event is unnaffected by the event.
Have to go now
Im sorry but your not answering the questions posed, are you? The two, the two on different planets experiencing varying gravitational effects. Would their watches appear to be at differing times to the third observer?
We are not talking about the effects on light or matter, we are talking about time and gravity. The observed effects not theoretical effects on light in a black hole. Thanks xris.
Imagine the moment before the big bang - A quantum singularity composed of all the ingredients of this universe, as we see them today, confined within. The tiny object we perceive is akin to a pea, in our mind's eye.
We look at this pea from our own perspective (beyond the effect), whereas we were within the effect, deep, deep ,deep, within, and not in our present forms, I hasten to add. The pea, had we had a perspective (from within) would have been as vast and expansive as is this universe now.
And time would have still been no more than a label applied to the distance between two occurences.
A month, a year, a decade - These are earthen perspectives. Gravity does not make A year more or less slower. Our relative perception does. It's like saying - gravity can make a (metre) more or less than 100 centimetres, or a (litre) more or less than 1,000 ml. It can't. Time is constant, always has been, and always will be.
I know this isn't what you want to accept, but it's true.
thank you , and be fruitful.
Why are you refusing to answer the question Noble? Its not a trick question. TWO watches both running at different times to the third observer. The two, whose watches we see are not aware of this discrepancy , their time is relative to them...Its only this godly figure that is above their attention .
I will ask you another question how old is the universe? I really would like an answer more than an opinion., please..thanks xris
"Noble"? Ex-serviceman, eh? My father was the last person to refer to me in such a patronising way. He was one of the Hereford mob. "who dares wins" and all that. 25 years we haven't spoken, since. So don't push it.
Your analogy only proves my point. Two persons, different time perspective? Third person concludes - "Time is relative, ONLY, to the beholder.
Universe age - Post Big-bang= 14-20 billion years. I see it as infinite, developed from the criteria that developed it, and "it" that. Always was - always will be.
If you don't like what I have to say or how I say it, Xris? Don't ask me anything more. But, my opinion is as valid as is yours' or anyone elses.
Thank you, and journey well.
Sorry you got the gripes over your main handle being used, Mark . If thats your feeling about my enquiry I leave you to it. I just thought this was a debate, not an exercise in opinions. Thanks xris...