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Time is it moving slower than it was in the young universe?

 
 
Scottydamion
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:47 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;130282 wrote:
So basically saying that time only exists in our heads. Heh I think I get the joke now.



Well when I mentioned zero velocity, I meant not being under any gravitational influence. Not being drug along with the movement of the galaxy and not being acted on by any other object or mass. In fact even stating that picking a point in space and not moving off that point. That to me would be zero velocity, even if the space were expanding, it would still be zero velocity.

We don't have a fixed point in space, because we never touch the same points in space ever. It appears as though we are but that is only because everything we see locally is being drug along with us. But the fact is we never actually touch the same point in space more than once.


It is a very odd idea, and I am fumbling to form the concept on the math side... the term velocity implies the use of time and position so I am probably causing a lot of confusion in terms... The point would not be that time exists only as a concept. That because we have the ability to remember, we have the ability to "see" time.

zero velocity goes against the theory of relativity. There is only relative zero velocity. If you are moving at the same speed as another object, and there are no forces acting on either you or the object, you see the object at "zero velocity", but this is just because of your frame of reference.
north
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 05:02 pm
@Scottydamion,
Quote:

by Krumple

I often wondered what a completely stationary object would experience in space, but we have never observed anything completely stationary. Since the galaxy is moving, and we are orbiting the galaxy, and the sun, we never get a chance to see what it would be like to be completely zero velocity.


your right we don't
I am question
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 07:15 pm
@north,
We cant see the past. We in vision memories but its not physically there.
"Space and Time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live. The Time we know of through clocks and calenders, were invented."-Albert Einstein
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:07 pm
@I am question,
I am question;145900 wrote:
We cant see the past. We in vision memories but its not physically there.
"Space and Time are modes by which we think, not conditions under which we live. The Time we know of through clocks and calenders, were invented."-Albert Einstein


We can remember, talk about it with other people, record it. It's all-ways possible to leave a trace of US to the future.

If things were up tp mr Einstein, we would still be driving around in Straatcars.

Pepijn Sweep
junior too
u/d Ox
pagan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 11:02 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
the weird thing about the past is that once you get access to it ..... it is in the present. Therefore it isn't the past??

The info realism view is that the world is information, therefore past information can exist in the present. Its all information. Other world views tend to make the past present and future intrinsic contexts to information and perception, therefore the past in the present (memory, light from stars, archaeology, writing ....) is not the thing in itself as it was. Though that doesn't stop us drawing useful interpretations.

Writing would appear to be the thing in itself. A present/past artefact (including this writing). But postmodernism points out that writing is never outside the context of its creation. I am already different to the start of this post. Moreover and crucially, reading is not under control of the writer....... and what use is writing without the context of the reader? Smile
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2010 12:55 pm
@pagan,
pagan;147544 wrote:
the weird thing about the past is that once you get access to it ..... it is in the present. Therefore it isn't the past??

The info realism view is that the world is information, therefore past information can exist in the present. Its all information. Other world views tend to make the past present and future intrinsic contexts to information and perception, therefore the past in the present (memory, light from stars, archaeology, writing ....) is not the thing in itself as it was. Though that doesn't stop us drawing useful interpretations.

Writing would appear to be the thing in itself. A present/past artefact (including this writing). But postmodernism points out that writing is never outside the context of its creation. I am already different to the start of this post. Moreover and crucially, reading is not under control of the writer....... and what use is writing without the context of the reader? Smile

All Art is in the eye of the beholder...:whoa-dude:
north
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Apr, 2010 07:32 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
of course

time is based on the analogy movement(s) of things and the relationships created by the analogy(s) of these movements , by things
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 12:18 am
@Alan McDougall,
Because time is linked or merged into the force of gravity when in the unspeakable far future when all matter has dispersed from the universe and gravity becomes zero, time must stop
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 09:01 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;151243 wrote:
Because time is linked or merged into the force of gravity when in the unspeakable far future when all matter has dispersed from the universe and gravity becomes zero, time must stop
If you actually know what time and gravity is, then by all means prove it, you will win the Nobel prize, the sience world are waitin for your prove.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 04:42 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151346 wrote:
If you actually know what time and gravity is, then by all means prove it, you will win the Nobel prize, the sience world are waitin for your prove.


While I do not know what gravity and time are I know what they do, time is a measure of how we move in this dimension and gravity is what makes a small body collide with a bigger body if they come close enough
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 05:29 pm
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;151548 wrote:
While I do not know what gravity and time are I know what they do, time is a measure of how we move in this dimension and gravity is what makes a small body collide with a bigger body if they come close enough
Then explain space time, how much does gravity affect it, how much will it be distorted, and at what rate?

When I hold a rock up to a mountain, I do not see it being pulled towards the mountain, it's quite unaffected.

Why are our planets in this system not sucked towards the sun, and why are the planets in a stationary orbit, and just not sucked into the sun?

How can our galaxy hold onto itself, when the centrifuge power would make it disperse.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 01:11 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151556 wrote:
Then explain space time, how much does gravity affect it, how much will it be distorted, and at what rate?

When I hold a rock up to a mountain, I do not see it being pulled towards the mountain, it's quite unaffected.

Why are our planets in this system not sucked towards the sun, and why are the planets in a stationary orbit, and just not sucked into the sun?

How can our galaxy hold onto itself, when the centrifuge power would make it disperse.


Your understanding of science and physics is sadly laking, do a few web searches to find the answer to these very basic questions
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 07:45 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;151704 wrote:
Your understanding of science and physics is sadly laking, do a few web searches to find the answer to these very basic questions
That wasn't answering my questions, but cleveryly avoiding them, trying to shrugh off prove of ignorence.
pagan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2010 08:48 am
@HexHammer,
i have been rethinking this apparent slowing of time. If time appears to slow down, then does it not follow that the temperature of an observed body decreases with velocity? temperature as in the internal motion of gas, liquid and solid molecules.

As an object approaches c, its temperature must appear to drop to absolute zero.

But temperature in this sense is internal, and internal is 'relative'. So when we ask about the early universe we in one sense are talking about a high temperature (the whole universe) and in another more particle individual sense a very fast moving object .... whose internal temperature appears less due to time dilation?

Am i making sense?

Incidentally does not the internal pressure appear to increase? .... due to space contraction and increased mass of molecules.
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Apr, 2010 08:51 am
@north,
north;132999 wrote:
of course it is not time that is moving slower , but the reactions between objects that is


You mean, relations between events, not objects. But yes. That is what time is.
I am question
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 10:11 pm
@kennethamy,
Our notion of time and our insistence on it in physical theory, has held back science. How can we define duration? What is to say a second today will be the same as a second tomorrow? How do you explain the similarity of time at spatially separated points? How can we know my 'now' is the same as your 'now'? These seem to be the two fundamental problems with time, and mind you, very fundamental questions. Albert Einstein only thought about certain aspects of time, he never studied the notion of duration. So how can we really have slight understanding of the cosmos when we barley understand the formulas dealt within? This world is relational, it is about how real things relate to real things. Because all we see are things moving relative to each other. The challenge is to create a theory containing genuine relationships with genuine things, and not relationships between the real things and the unobservable things. I hope this makes your understand what I'm trying to tell you about our conception of time.
pagan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Apr, 2010 06:31 am
@I am question,
yes i think i understand you i am question.

Since you have brought up the concept of now and time i have posted in the thread

"the experimental evidence for 'now'."
0 Replies
 
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 05:56 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;151556 wrote:
When I hold a rock up to a mountain, I do not see it being pulled towards the mountain, it's quite unaffected.


This is because gravity is an exceptionally weak force. You can overcome all the gravity of the huge Earth just by picking something up off the ground.

HexHammer;151556 wrote:
Why are our planets in this system not sucked towards the sun, and why are the planets in a stationary orbit, and just not sucked into the sun?


The planets are not sucked towards the Sun because they are moving forward at a rate that perfectly counteracts the attraction of gravity. They are in fact continuously falling to wards the Sun, but because they are moving forward fast enough they are in balance.

HexHammer;151556 wrote:
How can our galaxy hold onto itself, when the centrifuge power would make it disperse.


This is because of several reasons. Firstly, all the objects in the galaxy are attracting one another. Secondly there is a supermassive blackhole at the centre of the galaxy that also holds the orbitting objects, rather like the sun.
Also centripetal force doesn't work exactly that way. Think of water going down a plug hole. It is spinning but it isn't being thrown outward.
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:07 am
@Uplifter,
Uplifter;160295 wrote:
This is because gravity is an exceptionally weak force. You can overcome all the gravity of the huge Earth just by picking something up off the ground.
No, much of the gravity acts like electromagnetism. A strong magnet can't have the same "gripping power" to small objects as to large objects, same goes for gravity.

Uplifter;160295 wrote:
The planets are not sucked towards the Sun because they are moving forward at a rate that perfectly counteracts the attraction of gravity. They are in fact continuously falling to wards the Sun, but because they are moving forward fast enough they are in balance.
Not quite, you miss the "Magnus effect"

Uplifter;160295 wrote:
This is because of several reasons. Firstly, all the objects in the galaxy are attracting one another. Secondly there is a supermassive blackhole at the centre of the galaxy that also holds the orbitting objects, rather like the sun.
Also centripetal force doesn't work exactly that way. Think of water going down a plug hole. It is spinning but it isn't being thrown outward.
Even so, the astronomers in their galaxy models can't make a galxy hold on to itself, it will disperse ..even with super massive black holes, that's why the craze about finding dark matter/energy.
Uplifter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:35 am
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;160301 wrote:
No, much of the gravity acts like electromagnetism. A strong magnet can't have the same "gripping power" to small objects as to large objects, same goes for gravity.


Gravity is not like electromagnetism. It is an entirely different force.

HexHammer;160301 wrote:
Not quite, you miss the "Magnus effect"


The Magnus effect has very little bearing on the motion of the planets, if any at all. For example how would you describe the Magnus effect in relation to Uranus and Venus?

HexHammer;160301 wrote:
Even so, the astronomers in their galaxy models can't make a galxy hold on to itself, it will disperse ..even with super massive black holes, that's why the craze about finding dark matter/energy.

Dark energy is something different. However dark matter is used to describe the missing matter that explains why galaxies spin at the speed they do. There just isn't enough mass in the objects that we can detect.
 

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