Consciousness is a Biological Problem

@ACB,

ACB;92037 wrote:

I agree that there is a mysterious element to consciousness, but the problem is: where do we go from there? Do we simply say: "Biology is not the whole answer", and end the discussion there?

Yes, we end the discussion about biology at that point, and make no pretense otherwise. After that, it is all a metaphysical discussion and can be discussed in any way desired, and if science suggests that they know much more, the reply is simply - no you don't. You are just speculating like everyone else.

Speculation is speculation no matter who is doing it or what arguments are being used. Physicists do draw that bright line rather well I think, because they know if it is not in the equations then it is metaphysics and is all speculations. That is why they call it Quantum Interpretations.

Rich

0 Replies

@Kielicious,

some speculations or tentative explanations are better informed than others

positing that declarative memory may have emerged to bridge separate procedural memories makes sense because declarative memory is less modality-specific and appears to exist mainly in mammals (maybe octopi or some birds have it too?)

on the other hand, saying that the heart is an important part of human consciousness, when we have people alive without hearts, eh, not so well founded

not all speculation is made alike

1 Reply

@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;92057 wrote:

some speculations or tentative explanations are better informed than others

positing that declarative memory may have emerged to bridge separate procedural memories makes sense because declarative memory is less modality-specific and appears to exist mainly in mammals (maybe octopi or some birds have it too?)

on the other hand, saying that the heart is an important part of human consciousness, when we have people alive without hearts, eh, not so well founded

not all speculation is made alike

You can speculate all you want and you can call yourself more informed than anyone else. Why should you be any different?

Rich

0 Replies

@Kielicious,

because the ifs and maybes I adhere to are actually borne out by something that wasn't a just-so story from the Iron Age

1 Reply

@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;92062 wrote:

because the ifs and maybes I adhere to are actually borne out by something that wasn't a just-so story from the Iron Age

Whatever you say. There are millions upon millions of people (I dare say billions) who feel the same way. If it makes you feel smarter and better, then why not?

Rich

1 Reply

@richrf,

richrf;92065 wrote:

Whatever you say. There are millions upon millions of people (I dare say billions) who feel the same way

feel the same way about what?

your woowoo? so, who cares? argumentum ad populum

my empircism? hah, I wish. the superiority of the reality-based worldview doesn't come from sheer number of adherents

it comes from the fact it actually works

where's the beef rich? what has woowoo accomplished lately?

1 Reply

@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;92066 wrote:

feel the same way about what?

"some speculations or tentative explanations are better informed than others"

Most everyone things that they are right or better informed. You are just one of billions.

Rich

1 Reply

@richrf,

richrf;92069 wrote:

Most everyone things that they are right or better informed.

yes but I can justify that opinion with something other than

"because I said so"
"because Jesus/Mohammad/Laozi/the FSM said so"
"because this is [name of country]"
"because it makes me feel good"
"because I'm older/younger"
"because I will bring harm to you otherwise"

... which is unfortunately the level of justification many people rely on well into adulthood

1 Reply

@Kielicious,

Rich, again we see this theme of you always tearing down but never building up. You don't say anything at all except for how everyone else is self-deluded. It's vacant nihilism, rejection of the prospect that we can learn and that our experience can build on itself and revise itself. You have the least faith in the human mind and human enterprise than anyone I've ever seen. You drop a nuclear bomb on all human knowledge and experience, and leave a smoking wasteland. It's antiphilosophy.

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Aedes;92071 wrote:

Rich, again we see this theme of you always tearing down but never building up. You don't say anything at all except for how everyone else is self-deluded. It's vacant nihilism -- you drop a nuclear bomb on all human knowledge and experience, and leave a smoking wasteland -- I just wish in its wake you'd at least leave a little sprig of green grass.

No, just keeping it honest. Sooner or later humans reach a consensus and everyone is happy. You think you are right, he thinks he is right, I don't care, and everyone takes a vote, a winner is declared and everyone is happy - except those who lost the vote. And it keeps going. One does not have to be right to survive or live a life. Being right, only matters to someone when he/she wishes to impose their view on someone else.

Rich

1 Reply

@Kielicious,

guys

guys

guys

all is in flux

eating organic food cures cancer

0 Replies

@odenskrigare,

odenskrigare;92070 wrote:

yes but I can justify that opinion with something other than

"because I said so"
"because Jesus/Mohammad/Laozi/the FSM said so"
"because this is [name of country]"
"because it makes me feel good"
"because I'm older/younger"
"because I will bring harm to you otherwise"

... which is unfortunately the level of justification many people rely on well into adulthood

Yep, and that is the way of humans.

Rich

0 Replies

@Kielicious,

not everyone tbh

if everyone were dumb like that there'd be no progress

0 Replies

@richrf,

richrf;92072 wrote:

No, just keeping it honest.

If you were honest and authentic about your position, you'd reveal that it's NOT intellectual but rather just a visceral, intangible antipathy towards anything said with confidence. You swing a wrecking ball because you hate walls.

richrf;92072 wrote:

You think you are right

Only insofar as I believe there is a self-evident basis in fact for the things I think.

richrf;92072 wrote:

One does not have to be right to survive or live a life.

Sometimes one does have to be right to survive -- after all you credit your personal health beliefs for keeping you healthy.

1 Reply

@Aedes,

Aedes;92079 wrote:

Sometimes one does have to be right to survive -- after all you credit your personal health beliefs for keeping you healthy.

Yep, it is fine for me. But, I know that very few people would want to do what I do, so it is not right for them.

Rich

1 Reply

@richrf,

richrf;92083 wrote:

so it is not right for them

If you're this relativistic, then whither sayeth thou such dogmatism, aspersions, and condescension?

0 Replies

@Kielicious,

Well it is a known fact that many vaccines use mercury as a binding agent even though it is extremely small dosage. But we know that mercury is a toxin even in very small amounts. This is part of the hysteria behind them.

1 Reply

@Kielicious,

guys

guys

guys

nobody has the answers

nobody, of course, except for rich

---------- Post added 09-20-2009 at 12:02 AM ----------

Krumple;92086 wrote:

Well it is a known fact that many vaccines use mercury as a binding agent even though it is extremely small dosage. But we know that mercury is a toxin even in very small amounts. This is part of the hysteria behind them.

CDC - Concerns - Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal) -Vaccine Safety

0 Replies

@Krumple,

Krumple;92086 wrote:

Well it is a known fact that many vaccines use mercury as a binding agent

Not since thimerosol was banned -- despite the fact that no study ever correlated vaccine-associated mercury exposure with any adverse event. The ban was in response to the hysteria, not to data.

Krumple;92086 wrote:

But we know that mercury is a toxin even in very small amounts.

Not in vaccines as far as anyone has ever demonstrated.

1 Reply

@Kielicious,

I ate the inside of a peach pit once

cyanide

0 Replies

Consciousness is a Biological Problem

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