Consciousness is a Biological Problem

For heaven sakes, I never for a moment thought that what I was doing was scientific! I would think that by know, you would realize that my method is anything but - and I am quite comfortable and pleased with the results in my life. But it is my life and it certainly isn't for everyone. I am an explorer that is observing similarities in differences and differences in similarities and with this creating notions of the nature of Nature. For me, I need no proof - just a fundamental understanding that fits all of the pieces of the puzzle together.

Rich

In this thread the words "biology" and "science" were brought up quite a few times, so I just wanted to make sure.

My view of life is much more akin to an artist or a philosopher such as Heraclitus.

... ah, then you understand that the river is not the water, but is rather the flow of water ... so what causes the river to be? ... it's the water that collects on the mountain tops that causes the river to be ... what causes water to collect on the mountain tops? ... the rain causes water to collect on the mountain tops ... what causes the rain to be? ... the oceans and seas that fill the sky with clouds causes the rain ... what causes the oceans and the seas to be? ... the river that feeds them causes the oceans and the seas to be ... so you see, the river is it's own cause ... it's pretty amazing what open thermodynamical systems can cause themselves to be ... I'm really happy I'm (a biological) one ...

so what causes the river to be? ... i

But then from your thermodynamical cycle spawns the chicken and the egg question! Which came first, the river which feeds the oceans, or the oceans which feed the rivers?

Then you have Pathfinder which is essentially asking what created the chicken and the egg, which only leads to more questions.

... the water came first ... and facilitated by dynamic thermal gradients due to the uneven influx of solar energy across a rotating planet, an ordered system spontaneously emerged ("nature abhors a gradient" - ) ...

But consciousness lies outside realm of biology.

Which is a perfectly acceptable answer for me, but others don't seem content. They'll ask, "What started the facilitation by dynamic thermal gradients due to the uneven influx of solar energy across a rotating planet". After answering, the person will continually ask "why", leading to infinite regress.

Which is a perfectly acceptable answer for me, but others don't seem content. They'll ask, "What started the facilitation by dynamic thermal gradients due to the uneven influx of solar energy across a rotating planet". After answering, the person will continually ask "why", leading to infinite regress.

Let me ask the question this way:

What is the body and brain without the life force in it?

Let me ask the question this way:

What is the body and brain without the life force in it?

what was the actual beginning of that cycle?

... I suppose it depends upon how you define "consciouness" ... that is, if you define the solar system to exhibit "consciousness" (and on the evolutionary path toward human consciousness), then yes - consciousness lies outside the realm of biology ... but isn't "consciousness" then more or less a synonym for "open thermodynamic system"? (or do you also attribute to the solar system the ability to ponder its own navel?) ...

Let me ask the question this way:

What is the body and brain without the life force in it? Is it simply the end of a biological cycle? If that is the case, than what was the actual beginning of that cycle?

... do we need to ask similar questions for all self-organized dynamical systems that have emerged in the universe? ...

Yes, if we care at all what the concept of self-organizing implies. What is organizing itself?

... when you create a thermal gradient in a liquid, are you telling the liquid that it should organize into Benard cells? - or does the liquid self-organize into Benard cells due to its own dynamics? ... when stars pass and perturb a gas cloud, are they telling the gas cloud that it should organize into a solar system? - or does the gas cloud self-organize into a solar system due to its own dynamics? ...

Something is causing the wave function to collapse into a particle. This something is consciousness from my perspective. How do I come to this? Well first there is the weirdness of quantum experiments themselves. But I do not rely on this. I just observe. I observe my consciousness create things all day. Consciousness is the creator. One only has to observe.

Now, all of these quantum waves collapsing into things didn't happen over night. It took millions upon millions of years. Consciousness is always busy. It is busy right now creating things all over the place. New things. New thoughts. It is the beginning. One only has to observe.

Alternatively, one can hold on as tight as they wish to spontaneous emergence of everything - including consciousness. Everything becomes spontaneous magic - or God, take your pick. But to me this is too far fetch, just as my ideas may seem to far fetch for you.

A similar process happened at about 1 second for electrons and positrons. After these annihilations, the remaining protons, neutrons and electrons were no longer moving relativistically and the energy density of the Universe was dominated by photons (with a minor contribution from neutrinos).

Amazingly, (or maybe not), the ancient Greek and Eastern philosophers intuited exactly the same thing as I intuited, by simply observing.

As for biology. Biologists have their self-imposed rules. These rules do not allow them to suggest anything may exist other than material things. So they have boxed themselves out of the fun.

Physics on the other hand was forced into looking at these deeper issues by the mathematical equations which implied some extraordinary things such as non-local interaction (entanglement), Delayed-choice, as well as wave/particle duality as well as the wave function collapse. The only rule physics lives by are the equations. And the equations are telling them that something odd is happening in the Universe that needs to be investigated. Ditto for the expanding universe and dark matter. That is why I like physics so much more. They are less constrained by artificial rules - though within any field there are always those who are so quick to pull the trigger and call an idea quackery.

Biology has some great ideas with Rupert Sheldrake but their only response is .... (fill in the blank).