Consciousness is a Biological Problem

why do you think I want to "belong"

I do not know, but belonging to a group seems to be part of the human experience

... and isn't that what a child is being taught when they learn how to design and perform an experiment in science class? ... each and every experiment is such a challenge! ...

Hi Paul,

Your experiences may be different from mine, but in science class we were given pre-set experiments in order to achieve pre-designed results, which would net us an A in science class. I found by experimentation that it much easier to get an A by conforming to what the teacher was looking for as opposed to challenging the teacher.

... ah - then you were never taught science ... which is a big complaint from the scientific community regarding this latest veering off course into standardized testing ...

huh what are you saying

I don't think moral nihilism entails epistemic relativism

... I think you would find it uncontroversial to say that "a biological cell is an information processor" is a scientific statement ... but analyze this a little further: the cell interprets sensory inputs that have relevance for it (meaning), and runs these inputs through a transfer function (purpose) in order to produce a response that has relevance for it (intent) ... so in dismissing meaning/purpose/intent as subjective yet hanging on to information processing as scientific, aren't you guilty of epistemic relativism? - i.e., looking at the same thing from two opposing perspectives?

But I definitely learned critical thinking, and it was a very large part of my career. So, now, on this thread, I would like to see some really critical thinking ... show me that I am wrong about science.

1) Define evolution.

2) Define facts.

3) Show me which facts support evolution as defined.

All this with some really critical thinking.

Rich

well ok but your issue is more with the school system than with science itself

I hate school rich

3) Show me which facts support evolution as defined.

when I said purpose is relative I meant moral purpose not function

---------- Post added 08-24-2009 at 02:45 PM ----------



rich all three of these points have been addressed repeatedly in this thread, if you weren't paying attention the first k times why should we think you'll pay attention at k + 1

I have no issue, because I understand what they are doing. They are teaching students what they have to do in order to conform so that they can join a professional group. For many, it is a requisite for survival. It is fine, and I recognize it.

I only wish to point out that being a lemming has its downside also. I know many of people who lost most of their life savings in the last ten years, because they never learned out to challenge the thoughts of professionals in the field of finance. That is, how to critically inspect the thoughts of authority.

Is consciousness a biological problem? Let us critically inspect this idea even if it unnerves some in the way we do it.

... haven't I already jumped through this hoop once before? ...

when I said purpose is relative I meant moral purpose not function

Please summarize so that we can all agree. Without a recap, I am not sure we have a consensus.

Rich

... are you implying that "functional" purpose is not relative? ... that a cancer cell and a blood cell sitting side by side in a petri dish are going to have the exact same informational interpretation and response to their situation? ...

*sharp sigh*

evolution: the theory which explains changes in the genetics of a population over time

fact: something which is observed objectively; facts are explained by theories

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory
Observed Instances of Speciation

what a cell does can be said objectively

a cell's moral purpose cannot be said objectively

Thanks. Before I reply, I will leave it be for a while to see if any of the other members of this board would like to comment or suggest alternative definitions. Otherwise, these will be the working definitions that we can use. You may want to spend some time critically analyzing your definitions, as I do mine.

Rich