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lucid dreaming

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:16 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
A religious delusion? Literal reading of Revelations and taking the book as absolute truth is bound to produce a host of them.

Spirituality is what helps man understand his purpose in life; as opposed to egotistical desire. If someone were to find their purpose in eating chocolate, that would be egotistical rather than spiritual.
So thinking you have met an alien who might have revealed a profound relationship is just like eating a coffee cream and finding the god you believe in is not delusional but oh so very spiritual..As you refuse to inform me of your profound god i can only assume your delusional.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:29 pm
@xris,
Assume whatever you like.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I will not "inform" you of God: I'll tell you whatever you want to know as best as I can.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:40 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Assume whatever you like.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I will not "inform" you of God: I'll tell you whatever you want to know as best as I can.
So tell me how your god is not delusional ,is it built on the rock of faith or scriptures that you believe.Have you had personal experience of god?
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 02:53 pm
@xris,
If you have any questions about my faith, feel free to PM me. This thread is really not the place. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have in a PM.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Mar, 2009 03:10 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
If you have any questions about my faith, feel free to PM me. This thread is really not the place. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have in a PM.
I have no real interest in your personal faith only in determining how your faith is not delusional but others by your admission are.I cant see how you can arbitrate on what is delusional and what is not.For me all belief in gods is delusional because it can not ever be proved..just possible like our alien friends..
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 02:07 am
@xris,
XRIS And others

Lucid dreaming is really just another form of remote viewing or out of body event.

When I have a really vivid lucid dram I write it down , and now with the amazing web, check if something like my dream has not happened in reality, becoming news

For example just the other day I had a lucid dream of a guy hiding in a warehouse who was shot by a person through a window from the outside of the warehouse, like he was trapped by the law?.

Many of what we presume are awful night horrors are just our sleeping minds switching into an event somewhere in the world
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 04:50 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
XRIS And others

Lucid dreaming is really just another form of remote viewing or out of body event.

When I have a really vivid lucid dram I write it down , and now with the amazing web, check if something like my dream has not happened in reality, becoming news

For example just the other day I had a lucid dream of a guy hiding in a warehouse who was shot by a person through a window from the outside of the warehouse, like he was trapped by the law?.

Many of what we presume are awful night horrors are just our sleeping minds switching into an event somewhere in the world
Thats not a lucid dream Alan, it may be very profound or very clear but lucid dreams are amazing. You are in control you decide what you see and do in this imaginary dream world.In the alien dream or abduction experience the dreamer has no control he only has a vivid real experience of being abducted.The alien abduction experience is almost like living a nightmare by what they report.They become angry if it is told to them they had a paralysis lucid dream.Ive had very profound dreams,prophetic,lucid.paralysis and paralysis lucid dreams but never the type of abduction experience dreams reported. Xris
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 05:23 am
@xris,
xris


Quote:
Thats not a lucid dream Alan, it may be very profound or very clear but lucid dreams are amazing. You are in control you decide what you see and do in this imaginary dream world.In the alien dream or abduction experience the dreamer has no control he only has a vivid real experience of being abducted.The alien abduction experience is almost like living a nightmare by what they report.They become angry if it is told to them they had a paralysis lucid dream.Ive had very profound dreams,prophetic,lucid.paralysis and paralysis lucid dreams but never the type of abduction experience dreams reported. Xris


The sleep paralysis type dream , accompanied by some sort of intense buzzing is sometimes the start of a out of body experience.

I have had this type of event and I could sort of go where I wanted at great speed.

In fact when I had my first OOBE it frightened me and I was told it was evil.

I have never had a lucid dream that I could change or manipulate it, is this the type of dream you are talking about XRIS?

As far as alien abduction is concerned who am I to say it does not happen

But I do not believe we are visited by aliens in "metal spaceships" from remote parts of our unimaginably vast universe.

I think the aliens are entities from parallel universes or other dimensions. They enter our reality by some sort of a portal.

The TV series Star Gate it not far from the truth, in my opinion

Lucid dreaming or the OOBE might be a way of going through one of these portals
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 05:33 am
@Alan McDougall,
You can buy glasses that flash lights at your eyes when they are in rem, it can stimulate lucid dreaming.Ive only had them about six times but absolutely amazing.I have had paralysis dream nightmares as a child, terrible experiences , witches sitting on you and you cant move,ohhh horrible.I learnt to escape them eventually, i could wake myself up.
These alien abduction experiences interest me,i dont know what they are but i do know what they aint.Xris
0 Replies
 
Harby phil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 05:45 am
@xris,
First of all, I would like to humbly apologise for not reading the entirety of the thread, I will get to it after the post. I am most interested in the topic of dreams, especially lucid ones, and I hope I can share what little knowledge I have on the subject with anyone interested. The following is my post in a different forum, I believe it would prove an interesting read (but feel free to skip it if you think its too long):
NOTE: Its a less professional environment so it uses some internet slang etc, but it should be easily understandable and informative.
Quote:
As some of you may know already I have great interest in dreams and related subjects, so now I shall try and share some of the things I have learned so far as well as learn new stuff I hope. The following is derived mostly from my personal experience, not actual scientific research, but it's backed up by it for the most part.

The dreamworld

It is false to think that you are but an individual inside the "dreamworld", you are the entirety of it. The mind is used to representing one person alone, it cannot percieve something from all the people and places in your dream thus creating the illusion that you are only the person from which you percieve the dream. I'm sure most of you often switch between several bodies during a dream, sometimes even seeing your own physical body from a different one (I was once both the male and the female (one at a time) having sex, and not long after that I was a giraffe (not to mention the multiple times I had no "physical" body at all).
Furthermore, the people you see as common bystanders and support characters in a dream don't magically act of their own accord, remember that this is all happening in your head. A friend in your dream will act as you believe he would act according to your understanding of him and his behaviour, and more often than not he'd act even more complementary to the dreaming situation than he would in real life or completely different from his usual behaviour, showing that his appearance is nothing more than an illusion.
Another thing I've realised is that there is no "response time" in dreams, when you ask a different character something he will respond right away, as in essence you're just asking yourself (the only exception being the dramatic pause, which is yet again intended by you).

I shouldn't have even needed to write such a lengthy paragraph about this, it's all rather intuitive. The entirety of the dream is in your head, thus you can be the only one that created it and is controling it (subconsciously).


Dream recall

No one can remember all of their dreams or its contents, most can't remember practically any, and the reason for this is that they're nestled away in your subconscious memory. If you wish to recall your dream the obvious solution would be to keep a dream journal (which I don't btw), but what if you can't remember what you dreamt even minutes after you woke up? I had this happen to me quite a bit, but the solution is rather simple. All you really need to do is remember some little detail of it, any detail, then expand on it slightly etc and suddenly most of your dream will come to you. Think of it as a suppressed memory, you just need to "find" it and it shall be unlocked fully (well, you can't ever remember every detail of anything, not even in real life).

Just days ago I woke up thinking "meh, I didn't dream much. No lucidity, no cool stuff happened..." Then after I took a shower I picked up the ear cleaning sticks (******* it I can't recall its name in english...) and remembered I stole some in my dream, suddenly remembering I dreamt of a giant earthquake hitting my city, a buss I was in driving over the edge of a bridge and most other things about the dream. Just a single random detail unlocked it.


Lucid dreams

A dream is lucid when you are aware that you are dreaming and you are controling the "main character" and sometimes an even larger part of the dreamworld with your own mind, being concious while you are dreaming to put it simply. Most of you already knew that but I thought I'd just put it in anyway...

Now, the line that separates normal from lucid dreams is all but clear. Wikipedia suggests that you repeat "this is a dream" before going to sleep so it penetrates into your subconsciousness, making you say it during the dream and magically turning it lucid. I had never had this happen to me, usually its a far more subtle feeling after which I might say that its a dream to reassure myself only. Often does it happen that you "forget" that the dream is lucid, the subtle feeling may still be there but you relinquish the control you had and simply go with the flow. I cannot be positive that it is not just a case of the former, but it also seems that sometimes you do lose lucidity and turn into a normal dream again.

Regarding the first part, it is not only the main character that achieves lucidity. You would not be able to interact freely with the dreamworld if it didn't fall under your control as well. Furthermore, some of the other characters can exhibit lucidity as well.

In one dream I was fighting a guy reminiscent of Agent Smith, during which I realised it was a dream and knocked the **** out of him. I said aloud that this is a dream and that means I can do whatever I want to him, yet he responded with something like "if this is a dream, then I am a dream too" (followed by an evil grin) which actually scared me even in the lucid state and I decided to run away (or more accurately jump away from roof to roof).

Another example happened just last night, I was in some sort of superhero fun camp or something when some "bad guys" came and trashed the **** out of everything. I was lucid for some time by then and I confronted the guy that seemed to be in charge. He shot at me but the bullets bounced off and he said "so you can fly and deflect bullets, that won't be enough!" or something. I then exclamated that I have a secret power, that everything he sees before him is my dream and that I can do whatever I like, to which he responded "but if I kill you in your dream you'll die in real life as well". I did get frightened for a moment, but beat the crap out of him anyway, after which I realised that I died numerous times in my dreams anyway and nothing happened.

tl;dr The entirety of the dreamworld is "lucid" once the lucidity is achieved, but apparently the way you control it is mostly focused through the main character, though you can will things into happening without direct contact with the main character and even will things that are detrimental to him.


Control of lucidity

I may have quoted some amazing feats achieved through lucidity, but it is not even remotely as easy as it seems. Sometimes I can fly effortlessly and over great distances, yet sometimes (like in the superhero fun camp dream) I had to try several times before I succeeded, and even then it was more like floating since it was short, relatively slow and barely metres above the ground.
Apparently there are two possible reasons for this, either there are different levels of lucidity (and I must say I would've described the aforementioned dream as poor compared to some other times) or that some prerequisites of the dream must be present (i.e. your mind allocated its "resources" in the dream differently so you are not able to utilize the full potential of lucidity in a particular manner). Furthermore, when intentionally trying these feats while lucid one rarely achieves the same "quality" as in normal dreams. I've flew faster/longer/higher, affected the dream setting more fluently etc in normal dreams moreso than lucid ones. I have had sex (read: random rape) with a bystander numerous times in a lucid dream, yet the feeling is nothing (sometimes literally nothing btw) compared to a single kiss I had in a normal dream.

Another thing I should go over is exerting too much will. If you try too hard to do something in a lucid state, there is a great chance of waking up. This seems to affirm the first reason in the previous paragraph, as often the level of exertion that would wake you up varies greatly. Infact, there is a pattern, the lesser the "quality" of the lucid state the easier it is to wake up.


Thinking in dreams

Recently I started experimenting with thinking in a dream. It had happened to me in normal dreams, I would think about something without actually doing it. The problem is in lucidity. In normal dreams you are put into a situation to act as though you are thinking by your subconscious, and while they are your thoughts it is not really what I had in mind (pun intended).
Thus, I tried to think in a lucid state. One thing I noticed during lucid dreams is that even though I control my actions, I always just go about and do stuff ceaselessly. At first I thought it was just due to the excitement as I love doing stuff in lucid dreams, but the past week or so I tried to just think during a lucid dream and was astounded that I could not. Whatever I was thinking I was also saying or doing, there was no upper level of thought present that analyses actions before undertaking them, like I was an animal of sorts.

Again, this could mean two things: whatever you think is directly expressed into the dreamworld or the lucid state never allows the higher functions of thought to enter the dream.
In this case both are equally viable, the first is intuitive in the sense that you are in a world controlled by your thoughts, thus the thoughts directly express themselves instead of being contained.
The latter simply means that the higher levels of thought are still asleep, and seeing how they're probably the main reason the brain uses up so much oxygen/blood (not to mention separates us from most other animals) they need the rest and are exclusive to the awake state only.

Then again, I've only recently started testing this and maybe I just lack the willpower/practice/knowledge to purely think inside a lucid dream.

I have had many lucid dreams and have experimented in various ways within them, if anyone has any questions I would be honored to answer them. Now, so as not to be a hypocrit Smile, I'm off to read the thread.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 06:12 am
@Harby phil,
Harby :bigsmile:

Quote:
Lucid dreams

A dream is lucid when you are aware that you are dreaming and you are controling the "main character" and sometimes an even larger part of the dreamworld with your own mind, being concious while you are dreaming to put it simply. Most of you already knew that but I thought I'd just put it in anyway..
.

Very nice profound input to the subject. I am always the controlling entity in a lucid dream , so according to your opinion I have indeed had many lucid dreams over the years

A recent example, I met the Boxer Mike Tyson, we were standing next to a wresting ring and he was shouting at one of the wrestlers challenging them to a competition of some sort

Going to the net I found this actually happened and in the dream I also managed to get his attention, just as if I was a person in the crowd I told him to cool down , he looked at me very puzzled and I got the impression I somehow connected with him.

I could also feel his vibes and he is really a much nicer guy than the media give him credit .

Another lucid dream I had many years ago, was I found myself sitting in a passenger plane, as I looked down I saw it was flying over the Arctic or Antarctic, the next thing it flew right into a mountain and exploded

Later I found out that the New Zealand airways had special flights over the Antarctic and a plane had indeed crashed into a mountain in the Antarctic

And many more if anyone is interested
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 06:36 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
Harby :bigsmile:

.

Very nice profound input to the subject. I am always the controlling entity in a lucid dream , so according to your opinion I have indeed had many lucid dreams over the years

A recent example, I met the Boxer Mike Tyson, we were standing next to a wresting ring and he was shouting at one of the wrestlers challenging them to a competition of some sort

Going to the net I found this actually happened and in the dream I also managed to get his attention, just as if I was a person in the crowd I told him to cool down , he looked at me very puzzled and I got the impression I somehow connected with him.

I could also feel his vibes and he is really a much nicer guy than the media give him credit .

Another lucid dream I had many years ago, was I found myself sitting in a passenger plane, as I looked down I saw it was flying over the Arctic or Antarctic, the next thing it flew right into a mountain and exploded

Later I found out that the New Zealand airways had special flights over the Antarctic and a plane had indeed crashed into a mountain in the Antarctic

And many more if anyone is interested
I dont think these fall into the general idea of lucid dreaming but i could be wrong..there is plenty of information out there about them..thanks xris..
0 Replies
 
Harby phil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 06:52 am
@Alan McDougall,
Lucid dreams are not prophetic dreams, infact they are quite the opposite. If a dream can be prophetic in any way, then a normal subconscious dream would be more likely anyway. A lucid dream is a dream in which you are just aware that you are dreaming, this does not extend outside into the real world somehow.

By "dreamworld" I meant the entirety of your dream experience, the person you are in the dream, the situation you are in the dream and the people you meet in the dream, and that in essence they are all the product of your mind and equally you. That means the exact opposite of what you meant alan, that each of the other individuals in your dream are just your imagination, and that in turn means that when you do realize you are dreaming you may not only control your "dream avatar" consciously, but with some effort you can control the entire evironment of the dream as well as other people you are dreaming about.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 07:28 am
@Harby phil,
Well described thanks Xris..
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 07:58 am
@xris,
I often wonder is time of any consequence when dreaming is there a relationship to the action and the real time it would take.Does dreaming give us a clue to an existence we could imagine where time does not exist? When you consider how much of our lives we spend dreaming and how we mostly ignore this significant part of our existence.The reports people make about this strange world, it really needs more examination.
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 08:18 am
@xris,
xris and Harby

The dreams I mentioned before all that seemed to have some connection with the real world, outside of my knowledge of the particular events wrote about.

What was rather strange is that the events I dreamed about seemed not confined with linear time. Some dreams where events in the past and some where prophetic in nature.

Are we not just sleeping entities to those of higher vibrations than we are, and only appear in their dream state.

Likewise are there not entities of a lower order than we are, that somehow leak into our dreams.

Another type of dream I had was of multiple men's all Alan's sort of me the one in the middle and some to the right and left of me, each differing to greater and greater degrees from me, some smarter, better looking, some worse, and some alien but still me

Like a billion other aspects of myself exists in other realms

Sounds crazy I know.

Another dream I have had a few times and it is scary, everyone walks backward and I seem to be the only one who walks in the right direction , that is forwards. Iam some sort of a phantom in this strange other dimension

I remember dreaming in awe of a person backing into an elevator at great speed without looking and the door just opening in time for him to back into the elevator
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 08:41 am
@Harby phil,
Harby wrote:
Lucid dreams are not prophetic dreams, infact they are quite the opposite. If a dream can be prophetic in any way, then a normal subconscious dream would be more likely anyway. A lucid dream is a dream in which you are just aware that you are dreaming, this does not extend outside into the real world somehow.

By "dreamworld" I meant the entirety of your dream experience, the person you are in the dream, the situation you are in the dream and the people you meet in the dream, and that in essence they are all the product of your mind and equally you. That means the exact opposite of what you meant alan, that each of the other individuals in your dream are just your imagination, and that in turn means that when you do realize you are dreaming you may not only control your "dream avatar" consciously, but with some effort you can control the entire evironment of the dream as well as other people you are dreaming about.
I have got to the stage when i lucid dream it disappears as soon as it starts, i wake up.Ive tried the trick of looking at my dream hands but i still wake up.Im told the older you are the less they happen..dam..I loved the flying dreams where i could fly over an imagined landscape and the beautiful sculptures my mind invented, i wont mention the more exotic experiences.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 08:53 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
xris and Harby

The dreams I mentioned before all that seemed to have some connection with the real world, outside of my knowledge of the particular events wrote about.

What was rather strange is that the events I dreamed about seemed not confined with linear time. Some dreams where events in the past and some where prophetic in nature.

Are we not just sleeping entities to those of higher vibrations than we are, and only appear in their dream state.

Likewise are there not entities of a lower order than we are, that somehow leak into our dreams.

Another type of dream I had was of multiple men's all Alan's sort of me the one in the middle and some to the right and left of me, each differing to greater and greater degrees from me, some smarter, better looking, some worse, and some alien but still me

Like a billion other aspects of myself exists in other realms

Sounds crazy I know.

Another dream I have had a few times and it is scary, everyone walks backward and I seem to be the only one who walks in the right direction , that is forwards. Iam some sort of a phantom in this strange other dimension

I remember dreaming in awe of a person backing into an elevator at great speed without looking and the door just opening in time for him to back into the elevator
Alan i think your one in a million.On four occasions my friends or family have visited me as they have died, one occasion my best friend died of a massive haemorrhage, it was not very nice experiencing his moment of death.It is only afterwards when i discover their time of death that i even believe what i dreamed had some significance.As i have had these experiences i never discount others dreams as anything other than an honest account of their dream events.I think they will never be taken seriously as they go beyond our normal reasoning and science would never accept them as anything other than delusional irrational nonsense.
0 Replies
 
Harby phil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 08:59 am
@xris,
Alan McDougall wrote:
xris and Harby

The dreams I mentioned before all that seemed to have some connection with the real world, outside of my knowledge of the particular events wrote about.

What was rather strange is that the events I dreamed about seemed not confined with linear time. Some dreams where events in the past and some where prophetic in nature.
I do not purport to know the metaphysical, if any, behind dreams. I too have had some strange occurances of seemingly prophetic dreams or things that coincided with actual events in the past, but what I meant was that none of those really relate to the topic at hand. The act of lucid dreaming implies you are using your own consciousness to affect the dream, meaning even if something is influencing my dreams to give them greater meaning the act of consciously interfering would skew it and make it less likely for the message to get by anyway.

Quote:
Are we not just sleeping entities to those of higher vibrations than we are, and only appear in their dream state.

Likewise are there not entities of a lower order than we are, that somehow leak into our dreams.
Don't beg the question please.

xris wrote:
I have got to the stage when i lucid dream it disappears as soon as it starts, i wake up.Ive tried the trick of looking at my dream hands but i still wake up.Im told the older you are the less they happen..dam..I loved the flying dreams where i could fly over an imagined landscape and the beautiful sculptures my mind invented, i wont mention the more exotic experiences.
As mentioned in the post I pasted from another forum, I had the same issue when I first started experiencing them. The thing is not to exert too much will into becoming lucid, it needs to be fluent so to speak. I'm not saying you can't suddenly realize its a dream or do amazing feats at once, but some control is necessary otherwise instead of being awake in the dream you just end up awake. You just can't force it. Also, everyone that ever had lucid dreams had the exotic kind if we're thinking of the same thing :whistling:.
0 Replies
 
dizzy phil
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2009 09:06 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I have had, and continue to experience, lucid dreams.

Stick to reality. I could explain methods by which one can increase and increase control of lucid dreams, but I'd rather not do so. Instead, I suggest you recognize these dreams for what they are: odd neural firings. Do not read into your dreams. Focus on your waking life instead.

I may not be the most intelligent person around, but I know my dreams. Stick to real life; dreams end up being your desires. Base desires.


I'm sorry Didymos but I have to disagree with you entirely. To start I offer my condolences that your ability to have non sporadic lucid dreams has not given you the opportunity to delve into the realms of your imagination to either gain insight or simply to ore at the splendiferous marvel that is dreaming and the mind.

Have you worked out, which is the primary reality if a primary reality could be stated and have you also concluded beyond any doubt that the waking life is the life we should focus on. It is a very bold statement that you have made and I feel it would be a dishonour to the dreams of everyone if you didn't explain yourself further especially how you came to this most grievous misjudgement.

You are correct in saying that you know your dreams, that I cannot doubt or argue with, but you know not the dreams of me or any other so a passage like the one above is based entirely on speculation pertaining to what others may dream and therefore holds no wait in any argument or in this case open discussion.

Both what is seen as the dream state and waking state are states all the same and unless you are of a higher intelligence, and if you are I will apologise now, you do not know.

How about giving your tips on how to get to and remain in the lucid state and we will let everyone else decide on whether the dream world has any value or significance and they can experience it for themselves and take what they will without just going on what you say it is and what it isn't.

Im sorry if I seem a tad harsh but come on we are talking about dreams here.
 

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