lucid dreaming

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As a novice at philosophy and not educated as one i find the logical reasoning of reality a bit bewildering. I have been reading about lucid dreaming.Its not i think a correct term but it separates the act of observed dreaming and influenced dreaming.How do you know you are dreaming ? there are methods of recognising you are dreaming but they have to be learnt.. eg an "A" written on your waking hand gives you subtle means when dreaming of how to work this out.
I know it can be very difficult at times when dreaming to recognise this altered state of consciousness..Could it be the level our reality is just as hard to evaluate, is there a trick to take us to another level of being? In this dream world can we be subtly influenced ,convinced or even taken to other dimensions..

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@xris,

You should watch Waking Life and read a good internet synopsis such as this one, which is probably the best you can find. I could say more but I'm sure that reading will speak volumes for its self.

:research:

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@xris,

Lucid dreaming is one stage of sleep, that which comes just before N1 (stage one), and which may come up just after REM (Rapid Eye Movement). There is not really that much of any special deal to it, other than that the frontal lobes will usually still have some excitative function, rather than the stronger inhibition.

It would more likely not be as accurate to term the level of consciousness that is, in the lucid dream state, as being altered, per se, but rather (and simply) on a lower level of consciousness.

However, please fill me in on what you may have heard about lucid dreaming, xris.

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@KaseiJin,

I have had, and continue to experience, lucid dreams.

Stick to reality. I could explain methods by which one can increase and increase control of lucid dreams, but I'd rather not do so. Instead, I suggest you recognize these dreams for what they are: odd neural firings. Do not read into your dreams. Focus on your waking life instead.

I may not be the most intelligent person around, but I know my dreams. Stick to real life; dreams end up being your desires. Base desires.

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@KaseiJin,

KaseiJin wrote:

Lucid dreaming is one stage of sleep, that which comes just before N1 (stage one), and which may come up just after REM (Rapid Eye Movement). There is not really that much of any special deal to it, other than that the frontal lobes will usually still have some excitative function, rather than the stronger inhibition.

It would more likely not be as accurate to term the level of consciousness that is, in the lucid dream state, as being altered, per se, but rather (and simply) on a lower level of consciousness.

However, please fill me in on what you may have heard about lucid dreaming, xris.

Well personally i have experienced dreams where i can influence the dream and be in control of its direction.With That in mind i was reading about alien abduction dreams where the dreamer is convinced he has been kidnapped and can give very detailed accounts of their dreams.Certain psychiatrist disagree on how to explain this experience but most say it is a type of lucid dreaming with sleep paralysis. I find it hard to believe that anyone could confuse lucid dreaming with what they feel is a real experience.I wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar or can recall other reported similar experiences.I find it an intriguing subject.

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@xris,

xris, that's one of the problems with lucid dreams: you begin to find yourself confused. Did that conversation happen last week in reality or last week in the dream? The alien abduction cases seem to be extreme forms of this confusion.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

xris, that's one of the problems with lucid dreams: you begin to find yourself confused. Did that conversation happen last week in reality or last week in the dream? The alien abduction cases seem to be extreme forms of this confusion.

I suppose its possible but not to the degree the vast majority become angry that they are not taken seriously. I would never be able to convince myself that a lucid dream was reality and ive had some amazing dreams.Its these experiences by so many people that although they sound so fictional, should not be so easily dismissed.

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@xris,

It's not a matter of convincing one's self that the dream was real: it is a confusion; the inability to separate a dream experience from a waking experience.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

It's not a matter of convincing one's self that the dream was real: it is a confusion; the inability to separate a dream experience from a waking experience.

Thats my whole point can you be that confused that you have a dream about alien abduction and you think you have really experienced it.These people in every other respect are sane as we recognise sanity and dont have other lucid dreams that they confuse with reality.Is it a phenomena that is easily dismissed as hallucinated dream experience or is something more.Reading about it, i find the juries still out.

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@xris,

I've never been that confused (the extent of my confusion is limited to fragments of conversation), though that sort of confusion seems possible. I'm not one to buy into the alien encounters narrative, so perhaps I am predisposed against that sort of confusion.

That said, I have been confused: I have wondered, many times: did that occur in a dream or in reality? I cannot be certain, but I imagine those who conflate alien abduction with dream experiences are experiencing something similar to my confusion regarding conversation.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

I've never been that confused (the extent of my confusion is limited to fragments of conversation), though that sort of confusion seems possible. I'm not one to buy into the alien encounters narrative, so perhaps I am predisposed against that sort of confusion.

That said, I have been confused: I have wondered, many times: did that occur in a dream or in reality? I cannot be certain, but I imagine those who conflate alien abduction with dream experiences are experiencing something similar to my confusion regarding conversation.

Dont get me wrong im not saying they had a physical experience .It appears that they think have had more than a dream, they think their bodies are abducted from their beds and are transported physically.Objectively it appears to be an experience in another realm another dimension.Those who have been examined by psychiatrists get extremely annoyed when they find the same psychchiatrist reports that they have had sleep paralysis lucid dreams.The psychiatrists even comment on the humour of it. I wondered if there had been similar dream like experiences without alien abduction but i cant find any reports similar to them.

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@xris,

I think that it is completely possible to be that confused. I have, many times, had a dream which seemed so real that I could literally feel the experience. If this is possible then surely it is possible to experience something so real that you believe it actually happened. Especially if you consider that these people are more than likely the type to believe in such an experience.

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

I think that it is completely possible to be that confused. I have, many times, had a dream which seemed so real that I could literally feel the experience. If this is possible then surely it is possible to experience something so real that you believe it actually happened. Especially if you consider that these people are more than likely the type to believe in such an experience.

Yes but you did know it was a dream or you would be telling me of your strange experience and no the findings for many of them do not bare this out..It was or is found that a certain amount have vivid imaginations but if you are looking for vivid imaginations you will find many people have them without experiencing these dreams. My point is why dont we have other strange lucid dreams where the dreamer insists on the reality of their dream? Is it a new form of madness to be left to psychiatrists with no input from other sources ?I just feel it needs debate without preconceived opinions.

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@xris,

I can't recall the name of it but there is a disorder where people have a hard time telling dreams from reality. It is a type of Autism. I will look it up and try to provide more information.

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@xris,

Xris, this particular event has been put under a catagory of disassociated arousal in the course--as is most usually, but not only, the case--the sleep cycle. Even papersthat I have come across, by those who particularly focus on this area, have little to say about it; research continues. One slightly humorous comment was, 'if you try to fly, and are successful, then you were in REM sleep'--thus dreaming in the regular way.

The point being, regardless of the neurological and possible psychological underpinnings of lucid dreaming, it is still only an internal reality. Also, in that most all people will experience some degree of such as they fall off into stage one, or come out of 3, or 4, into REM, then into more of an awake and alert state, heavy lucid dreaming is very rare, overall--therefore it implies some sort of 'not-supposed-to-be' pathway/mapping realignment (or something of that possible sort). That, in and of itself, one must conclude does not (and in what I have read, is not) imply a 'mental illnes.'

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@KaseiJin,

I have had lucid dreams with paralysis and they are not nice but after the event i was in no doubt about it being a dream. Its the intensity of these abductors belief that seems to be the question. Ive learnt to wiggle my toes so that i can wake myself from them and even then i awake sweating profusely.You do get a feeling of someone in the room with you and you appear to be awake but unable to move but i still know after the event it was dream.

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@xris,

xris wrote:

I have had lucid dreams with paralysis and they are not nice but after the event i was in no doubt about it being a dream. Its the intensity of these abductors belief that seems to be the question. Ive learnt to wiggle my toes so that i can wake myself from them and even then i awake sweating profusely.You do get a feeling of someone in the room with you and you appear to be awake but unable to move but i still know after the event it was dream.

Let's consider the situation though. They are abducted and awake in their bed. The aliens must have put them there as if to convince them it was a dream... Luckily, they are smarter than that. :brickwall:

The fact of the matter is that the human mind will construct reality as the person sees fit. A lucid dream about an event which SHOULD place you in your bed when you awake is certainly an easy hole to fall into (psychologically speaking)

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

Let's consider the situation though. They are abducted and awake in their bed. The aliens must have put them there as if to convince them it was a dream... Luckily, they are smarter than that. :brickwall:

The fact of the matter is that the human mind will construct reality as the person sees fit. A lucid dream about an event which SHOULD place you in your bed when you awake is certainly an easy hole to fall into (psychologically speaking)

So you are simplifying the answer because thats the obvious answer..:perplexed: Im asking questions because others like you have so easily concluded the obvious, i could have done that. If everything was so easily resolved why do you think psychiatrists have pondered on this subject and written books about it.My point is that psychiatrists come from a preconceived learned view point, should we question their results? well i think we do.If you want to smash your head against a wall about my thread dont blame me if you have bad dreams tonight.

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@xris,

Oh no. I am not smashing my head at you. Sorry about that. I was smashing my head at the people who feel that they are "smarter than their dreams". People who convince themselves of things without any sort of further examination is something which bothers me. Sarcasm doesn't come through well in text format. Hehe.

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

Oh no. I am not smashing my head at you. Sorry about that. I was smashing my head at the people who feel that they are "smarter than their dreams". People who convince themselves of things without any sort of further examination is something which bothers me. Sarcasm doesn't come through well in text format. Hehe.

Harvard Gazette: Alien abduction claims explained thats ok this is one report but im a bit sceptical because it was harvard that discounted another harvard psychologist who thought there was more to it.

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