lucid dreaming

@Parapraxis,

Parapraxis wrote:

All have my dreams have been lucid, or at least have the appearance of being lucid. That is to say, I have never had a dream where I have felt I have had no influence, but it is possible that in all my dreams I have not actually had the influence but merely believed I had.

Additionally many of my dreams seem to be directed by David Lynch, cause for concern?

Lucid dreams are where you are aware of your dreams and you have certain control of their content. If you have had them you would definetly know the difference between lucid and normal dreams.Paralysis dreams are where the body is still paralysed by the brain but you are dreaming and however much you try to move to awake yourself you cant.You also may have a terrible feeling that there is a presence of evil in the room with you and for some seing this evil in the form of a witch or ghost.They are terrible experiences and the horror stays with you for days but they are never told as real experience or imagined as such.

2 Replies

@xris,

It doesn't matter if their dreams were true lucid dreams or not: they believe they were abducted by aliens, and that belief is delusional.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Lucid dreams are where you are aware of your dreams and you have certain control of their content. If you have had them you would definetly know the difference between lucid and normal dreams.Paralysis dreams are where the body is still paralysed by the brain but you are dreaming and however much you try to move to awake yourself you cant.You also may have a terrible feeling that there is a presence of evil in the room with you and for some seing this evil in the form of a witch or ghost.They are terrible experiences and the horror stays with you for days but they are never told as real experience or imagined as such.

I have never had a dream that I have not been aware of, i.e. I have never woken up and remembered a dream that I was not aware of as it happened. My point was, whilst in all my dreams I have felt that I have exerted some form of control that is not to necessarily say I have actually had control.

Given your definition of paralysis dreams, I think I have had at least three - and whilst admittedly they are scary, I also quite enjoy them in the sense that the kind of feeling I got when having these dreams has not been replicated anywhere else.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

It doesn't matter if their dreams were true lucid dreams or not: they believe they were abducted by aliens, and that belief is delusional.

So you are saying they might not be lucid dreams ? or are you saying their experiences are delusional or their interpretation ? If you have never experienced this phenomena or have no conclusive proof that they where not abducted, you cant say they are delusional..Belief in a god is it delusional?

0 Replies

@Parapraxis,

Parapraxis wrote:

I have never had a dream that I have not been aware of, i.e. I have never woken up and remembered a dream that I was not aware of as it happened. My point was, whilst in all my dreams I have felt that I have exerted some form of control that is not to necessarily say I have actually had control.

Given your definition of paralysis dreams, I think I have had at least three - and whilst admittedly they are scary, I also quite enjoy them in the sense that the kind of feeling I got when having these dreams has not been replicated anywhere else.

If you have constant lucid dreams you are one in a million, i can recall dreams but lucid dreams are very rare and amazing. If you have had witch sitting on your chest and you are unable to move i dont think you would find it at all interesting.

1 Reply

@xris,

What are the alternatives to lucid/paralysis dreaming?

1 Reply

@Parapraxis,

Parapraxis wrote:

What are the alternatives to lucid/paralysis dreaming?

I have no idea but as phenomena it exist and it appears for the majority to be a real experience , not a dream.We could list all the possibilities and debate the evidence. What i am saying is they dont appear to be lucid dreams, if im wrong ide like to hear the reasons why.It may not be true philosophy but the human experience takes many paths and this is some strange path.I have asked if anyone can recall this phenomena with a different storyline other than alien abduction. Historically, like my witch, people have recalled terrible night paralysis experiences even the word nightmare, i believe, originates from this experience.This is the theory psychologists claim is behind alien abduction but there does not appear anyone questioning their theories.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

So you are saying they might not be lucid dreams ?

I'm saying it doesn't matter if these are lucid dreams or some similar experience. I'm saying that because these people believe they were abducted by aliens that they hold a delusional belief.

xris wrote:

or are you saying their experiences are delusional or their interpretation ?

Clearly, their interpretation.

xris wrote:

If you have never experienced this phenomena or have no conclusive proof that they where not abducted, you cant say they are delusional..

Sure I can. I do not have conclusive proof that unicorns do not exist, but if you tell me that you spent last night ridding through wheat fields on the back of a unicorn I'm going to say that you are delusional.

xris wrote:

Belief in a god is it delusional?

It can be.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Your repetitive replies are not answering my questions..If 70,000 claimed riding on a unicorn ide say it needed debate.Its the phenomena that needs interrogation.SO when are believers in god not delusional?

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

Your repetitive replies are not answering my questions.

Sure they are: you just do not like my answers. Either that, or there is something you want to ask but have not done so.

xris wrote:

.If 70,000 claimed riding on a unicorn ide say it needed debate.Its the phenomena that needs interrogation.

I have nothing against investigating the phenomenon.

It doesn't matter how many people make a claim: if a billion people claim to have rode a unicorn I still would not believe them until I was presented with a unicorn to touch and feel for myself.

The number of people convinced of a delusion does not change the fact that they have a delusional belief.

xris wrote:

SO when are believers in god not delusional?

When they refrain from making delusional claims about God.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

So when do you decide what is delusional? when a god appears rational or when a unicorn walks through your garden?A belief in any god in my opinion is delusional as i have debated the subject. Have you investigated or debated with a soul who claims abduction by aliens.You must remember i come to both subjects open minded,they both stretch my credulity.

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

So when do you decide what is delusional?

When? After having given the subject some thought. If you meant to ask "How?", I simply examine the claim and compare the claim to what I know of reality.

xris wrote:

when a god appears rational or when a unicorn walks through your garden?

A unicorn would have to do more than walk: I'd have to check to see that it wasn't a horse made up to look like a unicorn.

And God, I do not think, needs to conform to logical principles.

xris wrote:

A belief in any god in my opinion is delusional as i have debated the subject. Have you investigated or debated with a soul who claims abduction by aliens.You must remember i come to both subjects open minded,they both stretch my credulity.

I have not debated them, though I am familiar with the claims.

An open mind is great, but without any filter it gets clogged with garbage rather quickly. I imagine, though, that you have some sort of filter.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

My filter is an inquisitive intention and you fail to understand there is no more proof of god than there is of aliens only in as much that there are many more claims to have physical contact with aliens than god.There appears an academic elitist attitude to believing one delusion over another with no more actual proof for one than the other.Ide be real interested for you to explain when you feel a belief in god is not delusional.

1 Reply

@xris,

And you fail to understand that there is proof of God, in that God can be experienced. You can prove God to yourself, if you look.

Belief in God and belief in alien abductions are two very different sorts of beliefs. Belief in God is belief in a particular sort of human experience that is transcendental. Belief in alien abduction is a claim about a human experience like going to the grocery store: except there is no evidence of the grocery store.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

And you fail to understand that there is proof of God, in that God can be experienced. You can prove God to yourself, if you look.

Belief in God and belief in alien abductions are two very different sorts of beliefs. Belief in God is belief in a particular sort of human experience that is transcendental. Belief in alien abduction is a claim about a human experience like going to the grocery store: except there is no evidence of the grocery store.

A but here's the rub ,those who claim alien abduction say it is a spiritual experience.So what shop does god hang out in and as ive looked for god was i looking in the wrong shop? Sorry but your elitist attitude is glowing brightly, you have no more reason to expect me to find god than aliens.Have you touched gods beard to ensure he is real?

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

A but here's the rub ,those who claim alien abduction say it is a spiritual experience.

The claim that some experience is spiritual does not mean that the experience is truly spiritual. That supposed alien abduction victims compare their experience to spiritual experience is incidental. Some people compare eating chocolate to spiritual experience. Some people compare the use of certain drugs to spiritual experience.

xris wrote:

So what shop does god hang out in and as ive looked for god was i looking in the wrong shop?

I'm not sure about this shop analogy, but, sure, perhaps you were. I can't know the answer to that.

xris wrote:

Sorry but your elitist attitude is glowing brightly, you have no more reason to expect me to find god than aliens.Have you touched gods beard to ensure he is real?

Except that my stance is not elitist: I'm not claiming to be better than anyone. Heck, I've already said that we all have delusions, myself included; it's just that I do not share this particular delusion: that aliens abduct people.

You're almost right to claim that I have no more reason to expect you to find God than alien: I do not expect you to find God when you are not looking. However, it is more likely for you to experience God than it is for you to be abducted by aliens as the former is possible, the later impossible.

Touched His beard? No; I think you are confusing iconography with reality. God isn't a magic man in the clouds.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Lets be honest, when have you called anyone who claimed to know god or have faith , delusional ? be honest please.

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@xris,

Many times. Finding a delusional person of faith isn't hard to do.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Many times. Finding a delusional person of faith isn't hard to do.

So describe delusional when applied to religion and how does spirituality differ for the faithful and chocaholics in your opinion , please..Blood stone comes to mind...

1 Reply

@xris,

A religious delusion? Literal reading of Revelations and taking the book as absolute truth is bound to produce a host of them.

Spirituality is what helps man understand his purpose in life; as opposed to egotistical desire. If someone were to find their purpose in eating chocolate, that would be egotistical rather than spiritual.

1 Reply

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