The idea that the Jews are God's chosen people?

I found this post by accident and I dont mean to offend you, but it is an ignorant question -- I am not saying you are Ignorant, I am just saying that the question itself is flawed. On the contrary, by asking, you are trying to remove Ignorance. Allow me to explain the flaw in the question.

Let me clarify, the word "Chosen" was translated from the word "Segulah"
"Segulah" does not mean Chosen.

The word Chosen implies that there existed several different Nations and The Limitless simply chose one of them.
The fact is that the actions of the limitless created the Nation. The Nation could have remained slaves and become assimilated into Egyptian culture and never have existed. The fact that the Nation was taken out of Egypt made it into a Nation. This is not because Israel had special merit. It is because of a Promise made to Abraham. The limitless promised to make Abraham's offspring into several nations.

Indeed the Nation of Ishmael, Rome, and Israel are 3 of these nations that came out of Abraham.

Now lets discuss the meaning of the word "Segulah"

"Segulah" has many different meanings. All of the meanings are applicable, but I will put forward one of these meanings that is most applicable.

This meaning is best described through an example.

You want to bring an electrical current from one place to another. You have a copper wire, and Iron wire, and a gold wire. Which wire is the best to use for this specific purpose? Gold is the best conductor. It is a lousy insulator. If you wanted to make a tea pot, gold would be a horrible metal to use because it would diffuse the heat. But for the purpose of the electrical current it is the best metal to use.
Now if there was no electricity, then it doesnt matter which metal you use, they are all equally useless. Gold doesnt cause the current, it only better allows the current to flow.

Thus a nation that is "Segulah" only better allows the Limitless to flow into the world when the Limitless so desires to enter.

About the Ruling of the world.
"God is King"
The task that the Nation of Israel was given, was to establish the Kingdom of God. Not through force. The kingdom is to be established by Israel itself and the rest of the world will simply benifit from the light.
The task of a Ruler is to serve his people.
Israel is supposed to provide the means for the Limitless to bestow of It's perfection on the world.

I can go into this much further but this reply should satisfy your question.

Binyamin Tsadik,

I found this reply by accident and I don't mean to offend you, but it is an ignorant reply- there is no God, ergo no 'Segulah' people. Furthermore your analogy, gold is the best metal if there is a conductor; presumably Jews are gold and conductor God, you believe in God, hence Jews are Gold and everyone else is iron and copper?

Dan.

I thought it was obvious that this was a metaphor. I did not mean for the metaphor to be taken litterally because that is the definition of a Metaphor. Gold, in this case is a better conductor.. I also specified that it is the worst insulator.
If you would rather I will change the Metaphor to Silver, Iron, and Copper. Copper is the best conductor of the 3. It does not mean that Iron and Silver are useless, it just means that Copper is better for this specific purpose. It also does not mean that Jews are Copper! It is a metaphor!

But I did not intend to argue with anyone by posting here, I only wanted to clarify the common mistake that people make based on the mistranslation of the word "Segulah"

I will offer another metaphor to help you understand. The heart has a specific purpose in the body. The liver has another specific purpose. Both are necissary aspects for the body. But both have specific tasks. The Limitless did not say that Israel is the best organ in the body, it simply said that Israel is the best Organ to carry out a specific task. The fact that the Limitless chose Israel to accomplish this task means that in the infinite wisdom of the Limitless they were best suited for it. I dont know what nation you are a part of or what task your nation is best suited to. But if the Limitless told me that your nation was the nation that was best suited to Science, then if I wanted to learn science I would go to your nation to learn. Both aspects are needed in the world.

Thank you for your answer. The above is what I would like to address. As could be commonly understood by "gentile's" such as myself, chosen could be very well interpreted as "superior". Common perception is crucial, in my opinion. With all due respect let me offer my perception based on the knowledge I have gained, the wisdom I have been blessed with and the experiences that have occured in my life.

I look up to no man; and I don't look down at one either. I consider myself one with all. Your explanation was one of "superiority" in my perception. I think that "superior" nature of the Jew is a common perception held by many. I could be wrong.

There is no doubt as to the jewish intellect and their acute understanding of human nature and it's frailties. This intellect could be used for good or for evil. As you mentioned the task of the Jew to be the "conduit" in which to issue God's will, considering the current status of the world, where are Jew's failing? It seems God's will is not getting out. It seems to me the Jew's are not talking. Yes they talk to other Jew's, but as far as the rest of mankind, they are mute. Please, again forgive my ignorance, this is my perception.

It is odd that you used "gold" in your analogy as a "conductor" in which God's will, will flow. Now I could be wrong but it is my understanding the Jew has most or is in control of most of the Gold. Please, if I am wrong, do no hesitate to correct me. Perhaps it is "gold" itself that will allow the Jew to "conduct" the world. For by your own words, your "task.

As it could be assumed a people with such a clear understanding of human nature and it's frailties could "entrap" man and cater to his weaknesses, such as "life" itself to ensure his ruin. Of course in this case, "economic ruin". Thereby leaving control to those who have the gold. In this respect, I conclude that task "evil". Big Time!

Please, your comments.
Thank you,

William

Dude first thing i said was about zionism and the Kahanists in here called me an anti semit

with that said


The kaballah does refer to jewish world dominance, and the jewish dictionary does say that jews are above the subhuman species (gentile)

And if this comment above is attacked?

i ask why does the right wing jews (not the shahs orthodox) want more land, and supress the palestinans ?

why did kahana talk about moving the inferior gentile out of the god given land of the old tribe of israel?

there is also i difference in the perspective of the sephardic and ashkenazim, about superiority

Hasidic jews are a lot different than the Joseph Liebrman jew

Summy,

This thread has gotten a little confusing. I messed up when I inappropriately "drilled" Binyamin in his "welcome thread" of which I apologize and the moderators move it and started this thread. That's all well and good and I greatly appreciate Bin's finding it and graciously responding to it. Summy, it seems you are at odd's with "something" Binyamin had to say of which I have no clue as I do not understand what you are speaking about. Frankly, it has me a little confused as to who you are talking to. In other words, I have no idea of how to respond. Sorry. Oh, and by the way, my name is William. Thanks

William

you were talking about the jewish perspective of the "chosen people" and the easiest proof to see is in the kabballah (jewish mysticism) , which many of the ashkenazim(european zionist jews) adhere to

plus the current situation in israel we can see how jews treat Palestinians (gentiles)

gaza and west bank is a ghetto (similar to the ones that were in europe)

many people would say that i am a neo-nazi for saying that because in american society the jewish question/zionist question should not be talked about

my waring to you is
be careful when you speak of Judaism, Zionism, Israel, or the history of the jews

a suggestion is
address jews in any piece of writing you must say things like
King Ariel Sharon
I pledge allegiance to the godly chosen people of israel
if you can say things like "divine" in stead of jews

A book called "israel lobby" got published and the zionist all over the media including npr and air america avoided it or condemned it

everything is fair gam

but not jews

so becareful

Thank you Summy for your concern. I appreciate it. But, you see God and I are pretty good friends. He's been with me every step of the way. As a matter of a fact, I never know who is talking, me or Him. It gets interesting some time as I look at what I have stated and I think to myself, "Did I say that", Ha Ha. It blows me away. It is amazing what the mind can do in it's pure state. Of course it took me 30 years to clear out the cob webs so I could get a clear channel to my Buddy. I am not in the least bit worried, but thank you for caring. I know what I have just said may be a little hard to believe and I can't explain it. I just let my words speak for themselves. Sometimes I don't even understand them myself. HaHa.

Later, My Friend,

William

Dont get me wrong i hate zionists

and judaism is the most racist religon


but you know its the zionist controlled world we live in

Firstly, Jews controlling most of the world's Gold is a myth. And I just used gold as an example because of it's superior conducting qualities not because of its connection to wealth.

I would like to address your statement about the Jews not doing such a good job of bringing down SHefa (Divine Blessing/Influence).

You must first realize that it is not the job of individual jews to spread knowledge of the Limitless Perfection.

It is the task of the Jewish Nation to set up a Kingdom of God in Israel. The closest we ever got was during the time of King Solomon's rule. The fact that Divineness is not being channeled into the world is simply because we are lacking the Kingdom of God. Thus, the most efficient task an individual Jew can preform in order to spread the light to the rest of the world is to focus on setting up this Kingdom. This is why Jews (quoting William) "talk to other Jew's, but as far as the rest of mankind, they are mute".

William, please explain to me where I indicated that Jews are "superior". In my oppinion I made no such remark. It is, however, the job of every individual to love his or her own Nation and take pride in it. I love my nation very much, and I would hope that you love your nation aswell.

You also touched on a very important point. Someone that has more potential can use that potential for Good, or for Evil. Know that the majority of Jews today do not follow the Torah and have been assimilated into world culture. Jews are "Failing" because they are not even trying.

But look at how this knowledge HAS spread. Christianity and Islam both have roots in the Torah. In fact, the Kuran is almost identical to a book called "Bereshet Rabbah" Which is an expansion on the Book of Genesis. Whoever wrote the Kuran had great knowledge of Ancient texts and made several obvious and deliberate mistakes. The one who spread the Kuran did not notice these mistakes, but a religious Jew reading the Kuran will quickly pick up on the fact that the author left several clues to Jews reading it so that they not fall into the trap of converting to Islam.

I hope to be anything but "mute" in this forum, however.

SummyF

Just so you know, many of the greatest Kabalists were Sefardic.
The RAMBAN, The Ben Ish Hai, and the Master, the Holy Ari.
I mentioned the 3 most famous ones.

Also Jews are a Nation and not a religion, please refer to my other posts

This is true, because kabballah is old, but the perversion of it today comes from the Ashkenazim which came from the kazaria region (not israel). Asheknazim was attracted to kabballah because of the idea that was give to him to unite his newly converted jewish nation. This nation took the acceptable norms to conform to the west, but had the idea of jewish strength imbedded in their socialization.

The main reason that the asheknazim converted to judaism was to take control of the GOLD that was given to the real jews when the persian king gave the gold to them because it was the only people he trusted becasue he gave them a life

Ashkenazim did not convert to Jewdaism...And you should know that there are also many Great Ashkenazi Kabalists aswell. The RAMCHAL and the VILNA GAON and the BAAL SHEM TOV and Rabbi Nachman and the entire CHABAD tradition.

Ashkenazim and Sefaradim are based on where they were exiled. In fact, Persian Jews, Iraqi Jews, and Yemenite Jews are not even considered Sefaradi. They are considered "Edut HaMizrach" which means they were exiled in Arab lands. We are all Jews, however. We were just exiled to different places.

You may be interested to know that Jews are the tribe of Judah and the Tribe of Binyamin. In Israel today, the tribe of Dan has returned from their exile in Ethiopia and half of the Tribe of Menasheh was found in an area between China and India and are slowly beginning to return to Israel. When the Christians made it out to the Tribe of Menasheh they told them that the Messiah had arrived from the tribe of Judah and they all converted because it was in their tradition that he would come and bring them home.

Also the Tribe of Reuven was discovered to be in Afganistan. They are known as the Taliban, interesting enough. They are mostly muslim today but they still have certain traditions such as lighting Candles before Shabbat. And rather than Observing friday like traditional Muslims they Observe the Saturday. And their complextion is far lighter than the Arabs in the region.

ic, i gotta get in touch with my ancestry i was opposed to birth right, that was a year ago

have you heard the Ashkenazim theory that they are converts?

cause i heard but never knew what the hell to think about it

Please, I encourage you not to be. There is much I do not know and your responding is most welcome. Would you explain the the difference between the "Secular Jew and the Orthodox Jew". It seems to me they are two very distinct camps, or even more under the Jewish Umbrella. I said I perceived your stance as being a superior one. As you continue to say and I quote:

"Someone that has more potential can use that potential for Good, or for Evil. Know that the majority of Jews today do not follow the Torah and have been assimilated into world culture. Jews are "Failing" because they are not even trying".

What exactly are you saying here? Those that have assimilated into the "world culture" are doing evil things as result of their awareness of the human frailties of man or as you say "potential"?

Please bear with me Bin as there is so much I would like to learn about Judiasm. Now one last note and this is just a personal feeling of my own and probably means absolutely nothing. When I think of the Middle East, Palestine, Egypt and Israel and that part of the world considering all the bloodshed, strife, poverty and hate, I have an extremely hard time calling it a "Holy" land. To me it is more like a "hell on Earth". Forgive my candor, but can you see how I could have such a thought.

Thanks for your not being "mute"
William

War is never a good thing, William, no matter where it is fought or what it is fought over. So I think all of us can understand why you would say something like this.

I think, perhaps, (and I hope Binyamin will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Jews see it as a Holy Land because it is there that their people are coming back together from exile. I daresay there is more to it than that, but I think that's part of it. Muslims and Christians see it as holy for different reasons.

I suppose that reuniting a nation after so long an exile would be no easy endeavour, no matter where it was done, and there would be opposition to such a movement anywhere. Sadly, nations are most often forged in war, rather than peace, thus the largescale degree of unrest that they experience throughout the Middle East.

SummyF:
I dont know where you heard that theory but it is definately not true. But even if it were, those that wish to join our nation and do it with a full heart are more than welcome and are considered fully and completely as Jews. So even if this theory were true, Ashkenazim are still just as Jewish as you or I. You should know that the nephew of a Roman emporer converted and translated the Torah to Aramaic. This translation is called the Onkulous translation and is printed as a commentary allong with Rashi. The translation is great because it allows us to gain deeper insight when trying to understand the Torah.

William:
Secular Jews are Jews that no longer keep tradition and have assimilated to other cultures or who have become members of christianity or other religions. They are still Jews and still a part of the Nation but are no longer connected with their roots. They considered by jewish law as "Tinok Shenishbah" which means a kidnapped child. It is not their fault because they were raised in that condition. The laws of a kidnapped child are because many jews were kidnapped over the ages and raised by other people. They have a special status. All secular Jews today have the same status. They cannot be blamed for their distance from our Tradition. Orthodox Jews is not really a category. It is a fairly new term that is very losely used. But in essence these are Jews that are still keeping the National Law.

By speaking about people that have a high potential it is obvious that the potential can be used in many different directions. But Jews are given a specific task. And Jews that are not directed to this task are not doing their job. Their potential is directed to another direction. This other direction may not be intrinsically evil but in Hebrew Evil means an Imperfection. They are not using their potential in the best possible way and therefore their efforts are not completely perfect.

Now you may have a different job in this world. And your efforts should be directed to this job. Your job is not less important but the job of a Jew is very sensitive. Small mistakes have great repercussions.

Holiness is also an interesting topic. It is a vastly misunderstood concept. What is the opposite of Holy? Most people would answer tainted or ungodly or allong those lines.

The real answer is that the opposite of Holy is mundaneness. Shabbat is considered the Holy day. And the rest of the week is considered Mundane.
For something to be Holy it must have two properties. Firstly it must be seperate from Mundane and Secondly it must be connected to the Limitless.

Separation is easy to see. This is called the world of separation. In this world there are 3 dimentions that allow for separation. Time, place, and substance. The holy land is a separation in Place. A holy person is a separation in substance.

In western culture the seperate are the famous. Famous people have far more influence over the world. This is a characteristic of all things that are seperate. The fact that something is normal means that it has less effect on things around it.

There is no question that the Temple mount is seperate. It is accepted as seperate by the entire world. The mere fact that you say it is hell implies that you also see it as seperate. Similarly Jews are seperate. Many of our commandments are intended to seperate us from the other nations.

Truthfully it is important that all Nations have a certain degree of separation from each other.

Shalom is peace despite separation. It is easy to be at peace if there is one nation. You have not accomplished anything. The difficulty is love and respect and co-operation between separate Nations. If you are married, you will know this concept well. It is difficult to work together.

The fact that Jews are seperate only means that they have far more influence over the world. THe fact that the land is seperate means that it has far more influence. The proof of this is that Jews and Israel make up 0.2% of the worlds population but make up 50% of the news. Seperation just means potential for influence.

Now something that is seperate and can influence the mundane has a lot of potential. The Potential is Influence. When one that is seperate is connected to God then we are allowing God to influence the world. That is the Job of everything that is Holy. To be as a vehicle for God's influence. To elevate the world to Godliness and sanctity. This is why one that is holy and makes a mistake is punished far more than one that is not. The mistake influences the world and has far greater reprocussions. Moses was not permitted into the land despite his greatness because he showed a small degree of anger. The rest of Israel were permitted into the land although they probably got angry a lot. The difference was that Moses was Holier. He was more connected to God and More seperate than the entire Jewish Nation combined. This is why Moses' influence on the world is so great and which is why he had to correct even the smallest of mistakes.

Interestingly enough, the Reform movement began in Germany. Their entire campaign was, "be a Jew at home and a German in public". "We are no longer a nation, we are Germans." And the German composer, Wagner, writes "It doesn't matter how hard a Jew tries, he can write better German music than a German but he will still never be German."

10 Years later Hitler says "Dont let their blood mix with our blood" Keep them seperate! And we all know the punishment that we received for this movement. This Separation that we received means that we have more responsibility to use it properly.

It all goes back to the gold wire that conducts electricity better. We have the ability to bring Godliness into the world better than anyone else because we were separated. Not because we are superior or because the Nation is a superior one. This is why anyone can join this Nation. We are not like America that only lets certain people in. Anyone that wants this responsibility and difficult task is welcome to join. Conversion proves that a Jew is not superior. Also the fact that Non-Jews are encouraged not to join. If a Jew is superior then we would want the entire world to be superior and we would try and convert the entire world. But that is not the case.

The 6 days of the week are what separate Shabbat. The rest of the nations are what allows Israel to be separate from them. The Goal is to get godliness into the world and elevate all of the nations. Israel is not the goal it is just the pipeline to achieve that goal.

About National tasks I want to clarify the root.

The root of the Nations comes from Noah and more specifically his 3 sons. Yapheth, Hham, and Shem

Yapheth is beauty, and his task was to beautify the world. All nations that stem from Yapheth are given this task. Greece is a decendant of Yapheth and Greek culture was obsessed with beauty. They wanted to perfect the Human body, built sculptures, and created sport and entertainment. All of these things beautify the world.

Hham is warmth. Hham's task is to bring warmth into the world.

Shem is Name. The task of Shem is to connect everything to its meaning and to bring God's name into the world.

A perfect world is a combination of all 3. If Beauty is the goal then it is empty and meaningless. But beautifying the world is very important. Warmth and culture is also very important. Communism does not work because it lacks warmth. It lacks individualism and care. And the Law and Order that is brought by Shem can also be very cold. And giving everything meaning and conecting the world to Divinity is also important.
All 3 are necissary in perfecting the world.

Being "Chosen" for a specific task does not in any way imply superiority.

Jews are God's chosen people? No no no no, you got it all backwards.
It is God who is Jews' chosen deity.

Imagine harnessing the energy people put in worshiping supernatural beings. Imagine the power you'd have over a nation, and all the things you could get out of it, if the only liaison between the "one single true" deity and the real world is ... well, YOU. "Holy men" of no matter which culture always had it good, materially speaking.

So, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, I present you monotheism and its inventor, a creature belonging to the Hominidae family, Homo sapiens species, a creature who went by the name of Abraham, the biblical patriarch of the Jews, born in today's southeastern Turkey. He woke up one the morning and thought it would confer himself and, later on, his people, a great advantage if he could convince them to believe in a single deity, chosen by himself. Very clever of him, he probably had very good understanding of human psychology and also finance But how could he accomplish this ? Driven by famine (i.e. lack of wealth), he moved to Egypt.

As I was saying, Abraham, this smart man, went around telling his people that the one and only true god talked to him. You'd expect people would laugh, right ? Well they didn't, and for good reason. Abraham was telling his people the one and only true god will make them rich, by giving them vast land (later this land got the name of Land of Israel) and protect them and their land. Very convenient, isn't it ? Let me go over that again, in case you are confused.

A man told his nomadic fellows, the Hebrews, that God has spoken to him and that God has promised them wealth. God. Land. Wealth.

This didn't go very well though. Jewish tradition holds that the Israelites were the descendants of Jacob, one of Abraham's sons. Jacob's twelve sons lived in Egypt. The Egyptians enslaved the Jews, fearing they could take over the state power. Jews didn't give up though, and Moses rose to lead the Jews out of Egypt, in the exodus through the desert. At one point Moses goes up a mountain and when he comes back he tells people he talked to God. Let me repeat.

After returning from a trip up on a mountain, a man tells his nomadic fellows God has spoken to him, as with Abraham, renewing his promise of giving Jews land.

Some of them didn't buy it and complained, longing for the good life they had back in Egypt but they were punished by divine punishment (yeah right). Also tradition says God decided they weren't faithful enough so the whole first generation had to die in the 40 years before reaching the promised land. To reiterate :

A man who leads people around through a desert decides to do so for 40 years during which the unfaithful and unruly die by "divine punishment" along with the WHOLE first generation (which obviously wasn't suited for indoctrination).

And there you have it. A whole "nation" led through the desert by a man who tells them they are God's chosen, that they are on God's explicitly given mission, very well and precisely worded, to commit genocide against the Canaanites, to kill their children, men and women, to burn their altars, etc, in order to take their wealth and land.

Hmm...

Cha-ching

Araciunervus.

First of all, Abraham did not invent Monotheism. Shem and Ever were still alive during his lifetime. In fact Shem by the name of Elimelech blesses Abraham after the battle with the 4 kingdoms. Abraham did however discover a new form of spirituality.

Until this point Spirituality was the separation of Body and Soul. It was attaining enlightenment through meditation and separation. Abraham theorized that Spirituality is useless if it is not connected to every day life. His idea was to elevate existence rather than separate from it.

Next, not only Moses heard the voice of God. The entire nation of Israel heard His "voice" and they begged Him to stop. Apparently it is very painful and difficult to hear the "voice" of the Limitless.

This has its own spiritual implications. Hearing the "voice" is directly connected to humility. If someone has too much "self" then the "voice" is painful. Only when one eliminates self can they accept a certain degree of the Limitless. The entire Nation then told Moses to receive for them. They trusted him to receive and pass it on because it was too painful.

The Generation of the Desert was a slave Generation and had a psychological condition known as "learned helplessness"
When the Egyptians came to them at the Sea of Reeds they were afraid and had to cross a parted sea, even though Israel outnumbered them 10 to 1.

They were too afraid to enter the land and too afraid of battle. They had to wander the desert in order for the slave generation to die off. There were a certain number of the nation that decided to go against this 40 year idea and decided to go into the land anyway and were all slaughtered.

Think about it for a second, Moses was already quite old and wandered the desert another 40 years so that the people would die off? Many of the people did not die off. Joshua and Calev did not participate in the sin of the spies that gave a bad report of the land causing all of Israel to fear and refuse to go in. They were both alive after the 40 years. Also think about how over a million people could survive in the dessert for a week let alone 40 years.

The Canonites were slaughtering their sons and daughters on the altar. Their God was supposed to receive from their pain so they tortured them first aswell.

The hebrew word for Hell is GeHinnom which is named after the valley outside of Jerusalem where these children were tortured and slaughtered. The people were commanded to destroy the Caanonites and warned that if they didnt they would be "a thorn in their side". A few violent cities were conquered but Israel had mercy and refused to kill the Caanonites and if you examine the History you will see just how much of a "thorn" these people were.