The idea that the Jews are God's chosen people?

@Solace,

Solace wrote:

I nearly choked on this one boagie.

Solace,

Then spit it out lad, it might be a pearl, what is your problem with it? A trible religion is exclusive and world religion is inclusive. Do you have a problem with this?

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

William,

Judaism is a trible religon, as such it is self concerned, as apposed to a world religion like Christianity, the nature of this tribalism is both the strength and weakness of Judaism in general. Tribleism is at least one reason I believe for the hostility in general towards the jewish people. Just a thought, it is not something generally acknowledge when discussing the historical oppression of the Jewish people.

Do you mean tribal? And apposite is very different to opposite. What staff are you a member of, incidentally?

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@SummyF,

SummyF;25628 wrote:

Dont get me wrong i hate zionists

and judaism is the most racist religon

but you know its the zionist controlled world we live in

My problem is the extent to which the old testament glorifies the original "Jews" passage through the world massacring people's based solely on idolatry (Moses), claim they escaped slavery in Egypt then complained about the actions of the Nazis.

Above all I condone the freedom and painless existence of all existence.

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Solace,

Then spit it out lad, it might be a pearl, what is your problem with it? A trible religion is exclusive and world religion is inclusive. Do you have a problem with this?

Sorry, I just don't see Christianity as not being self concerned. Of course, any entity is self concerned, I should suppose. But being inclusive too often leads to enforced inclusiveness, and I don't need to rehash how that mentality has debased Christianity into a society of warmongers. Perhaps we could all use a little more exclusiveness...

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@Solace,

Solace wrote:

Sorry, I just don't see Christianity as not being self concerned. Of course, any entity is self concerned, I should suppose. But being inclusive too often leads to enforced inclusiveness, and I don't need to rehash how that mentality has debased Christianity into a society of warmongers. Perhaps we could all use a little more exclusiveness...

Solace,

Your point is well taken, it is true that world religions tend to be the most aggressive, it is really a totalitarian desire I believe of religions like Christianity and the Muslim faith. Tribal religions are not outward looking and are not really concerned with the theology of others, if it does not directly effect their community of race based religion like Judaism or the Hindu faith.

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

My problem is the extent to which the old testament glorifies the original "Jews" passage through the world massacring people's based solely on idolatry (Moses), claim they escaped slavery in Egypt then complained about the actions of the Nazis.

Above all I condone the freedom and painless existence of all existence.

One must read between the lines in order to put the old testament into any sort of context. Essentially, the chosen people continually defied God, so God said, "Fine, you want to be like those people, I will make them despise you."

And the best argument for the existence of a divine being that I can think of; it takes divine intervention to make the whole world hate one particular group of people. :detective:

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@Solace,

Hey guys, I have a great idea. Let's all misrepresent half the world's population with unwarranted, accusatory generalizations.

Christianity is a society of warmongers. Yep, Christianity is one monolithic bloc, and every Christian moves in unison, thinks in unison, dreams in unison, praying for more war and bloodshed.

Islam is another monolithic bloc, composed of a single will, and most certainly not a variety of different views and beliefs. Just like Christianity, all Muslims have precisely the same beliefs, and precisely the same desires. Both of these indivisible entities, Christianity and Islam, are driven by the same totalitarian desire, and every member of said indivisible entities is driven by their unquestioning support for the totalitarian desire of their faith tradition.

1 Reply

@Solace,

Solace;27006 wrote:

One must read between the lines in order to put the old testament into any sort of context. Essentially, the chosen people continually defied God, so God said, "Fine, you want to be like those people, I will make them despise you."

And the best argument for the existence of a divine being that I can think of; it takes divine intervention to make the whole world hate one particular group of people. :detective:

I'd point out the crazy amount of puns in the languages of the world as evidence that "divine intervention" is possibly quite an apt point - for example 'schmuk' and 'shmoke'; something to do with the nose methinks.

Although don't get me wrong, I'm not inciting any kind of blame or responsibility for the massive messy messianic fervour that is "world religion" (and also racially based religions mind). This is of course an AD Latin interpretation of what was once probably a word and perhaps little more (very doubtful though that is). Another might be the removal of 'LIE' from 'ENGLISH' (NGSH which read backwards is SHGN - shogun, or maybe chi-gung, shaggin, shy goon? Codified bastadry).

I tell you, whoever invented all this language we speak is up to something tricky, and I would love to know who...

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

I tell you, whoever invented all this language we speak is up to something tricky, and I would love to know who...

Ha, Ha. We are a tricky bunch aren't we. Considering the autonomous genius's we are and incapable of making mistakes, we had to create those words that allow us to escape culpability. It's called rationalization as we search our past to find a "precedent" that give's us reason and justification to do whatever the hell we want to do and sleep like a baby at night no matter how stupid and ridiculous our behaviors are. Actually it's not trickery. It's shrewd and we are a clever lot. It doesn't just apply to religion, we are all guilty as we need something to blame our mistakes on. Of course some point fingers more than others. God knows it's not our fault. Yeah, right.

William

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@Didymos Thomas,

DT,

we all know full well that not everyone that practices a particular religion or set of beliefs condones or is confined by the atrocities that can, very reliably, be attributed to the practitioners, and in particular, certain leaders of, that religion. But hey, I'm sure that not every Nazi wanted to kill Jews either, nor did every communist agree with banning religion from society. But what they believed didn't prevent the group they belonged to from doing those things that tainted the general opinion of them. Just because Christianity or Islam is a religion and not a form of government doesn't let individuals off the tainted hook... actually it hangs them more securely to it.

Looking at history, Christians have quite often been warmongers... and looking at what the U.S. (a country in which every president openly proclaims to be Christian,) is doing even now, I'm afraid that the warmonger title still applies. I'm not saying that every Christian acts in unison, but hey, enough of the ones in your country acted in unison to give power to a warmonger named George Bush, even for a second term when he'd already revealed that he was indeed a warmonger. And yes, I know that it must have taken more than just the practicing Christians to get enough votes to win the election, but check out your political demographics sometime and you'll find that Bush did get the majority of the Christian vote. Not one Christian who voted for Bush in his second term can hope to divest themselves of the warmonger taint. Support a Christian warmonger and you support Christian warmongering.

So it's not as if we're talking about things that are long dead in history and don't apply to modern Christians. If you're not one of those individual Christians who support warmongering then I salute you, but if that's the case then you need to understand the very legitimate complaint others have about Christianity and not take it as a personal attack. Making generalizations may be politically incorrect, or even in poor taste, but that doesn't stop the generalization from being true in most cases, nor does the generalization insist that every individual within a group falls into the generalization that defines the group. There are some exceptions to everything... such as a non-warmongering Christian is the exceptional one.

Doobah,

that bit about the argument for the existence of God wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I'm the last person who would try to provide evidence for the existence of the divine.

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@Solace,

I think I read somewhere on this forum that 'God' was defined by somebody as 'logos' (Greek for 'word'??)

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@Solace,

The Bush admisitration is said to be a faith base administration, god is dictating foreign policy speaking directly to George Brush, no wonder the world think Americans have **** for brains! Excellent summation of the situation Solace!!

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@boagie,

It is true that "Jews" are a tribe. The tribe of Judah. Although, Judah actually consists of two of the twelve tribes. Judah and Benjamin. Today in Israel, the Tribe of Menashe has begun to return from India, and the Tribe of Dan from Africa.
The tribe of Reuven has been identified as the Taliban in Afganistan.

Secondly, it is not a religion. The separation of religion and nation is a relitively new phenominon.
You can see that the Tribe of Reuven today are Muslims, but they are still considered part of the Nation of Israel.
When chritians arrived to the tribe of Menashe in India, they told them that they were missionaries of the Messiah from Judah. The tribe of Menasheh quickly bought it because they were waiting for the Messiah to bring them home.
So today, the entire tribe of Menashe is Christian but they are still part of the Nation of Israel. (Even though they look a lot like Indians).

And william, I went through so much trouble to prove to you that Jews do not consider themselves superior, yet you still accuse me of this. Well I say to you, so what! Even if we did think we were superior, what's it to you? Rome thought they were superior, Greece thought they were superior, America today thinks they are superior.
Stop medling with the other nations! Let them be. Their way of life does not have to be like yours. They have their own customs and cultures and traditions, stop trying to push yours onto them.
(I know there is a seperate thread for this but you brought it up here)
One unified nation is in essence the death of all of the nations. I am not responsible for every nation in the world, I can only hope that they all take responsibility and struggle to stay alive. I know that my nation will never lose its identity. This was the main problem between Israel and Greece. Greece kept tablets of Israel's assimilation. They brought idol worship into God's temple and forbade us from teaching and learning Torah. Then a group of 500 priests faught off the Greek occupation and for 200 years Israel was left alone until the Romans came along. For 2000 years the Nation of Israel still exists. I am not worried about Israel losing its Nationhood. Mark Twain wrote about this in depth. I do, however, worry for all of the other world nations and hope that they survive this new phase in history known as "Globalization".
The end result of Greece was that they killed all of the nations by making them Greek. Romans did the same by making them all Romans. I pray that the world does not become American.

End of Rant

Goodnight

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@urangutan,

urangutan wrote:

Binyamin Tsadik, I do not believe in the State of Isreal. Not for any of the doing by settlers who returned to the Land of Milk and Honey but quite simply, the act that as the United Nations had the gall to hand to you the opportunity in such a place that was not theirs for the offering.

Then who's land was it?

The Romans? The Bizantines? THe Automans? THe British?

Ever hear of the Balfour declaration?

Jews have always lived in Israel at every time in History.

Under the British Mandate, most Jews had citizenship to a country known to the world as Palestine. A name called on the land by the Roman murderers in order to disgrace the Jews.

If you said that you were "Palistinian" 100 years ago, most people would have thought you were Jewish. Because that is who lived there.
Arabs only really Arived there under Sala El Din during the Cruisades. And only began to immigrate to Israel when the "Zionist" settlers began making the land green again because of the commerce.

Look at the writings of Marc Twain on how deserted the land was and how it was all dead and barren. Look at what Einstein said about the land not being able to support its population because it is mostly desert.
However, these "Zionists" made the land flourish. (I as a believer would say it was the hand of the Limitless)
And that is why Arabs began arriving in Israel.
"Zionists" also have NEVER waged any wars. They have not displaced ANY Arabs and have only ever settled on empty dessert land. Arabs only began claiming the land once they saw how green it had become.

I used to visit the Gaza strip very often. I have pictures. The Jewish settlements there managed to grow produce out of Sand.

So who's land is it?

Even the Native Americans laugh at the idea of "Ownership" of land.

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@Binyamin Tsadik,

Quote:

I do, however, worry for all of the other world nations and hope that they survive this new phase in history known as "Globalization".

Amen to that.

Quote:

I pray that the world does not become American.

I don't think that will happen. If something ugly does loom on the global horizon, Americans will become victims of it as much as anyone else.

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@Solace,

I told you up front Binyamin Tsadik, that it had nothing to do with Jews, what they may or may not have done, nor anybody else that lived there. It was not the land of England, nor was it the possession of the United Nation to offer the settlement closure. If you want to discuss the productivity of the land, that's wonderful, if you want to talk of your right to defend yourself, that is expected but it is not my concern here. The history of the world is, you take what you want and if nobody can prevent you then so be it. That point should be read by all, because here we stand, accusing the jewish people, on land we took ourselves. Accusing those same people of whatever, which our nations put into effect. When the Arab world wanted to retaliate it should've hit at us, from the start.

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@urangutan,

urangutan wrote:

I told you up front Binyamin Tsadik, that it had nothing to do with Jews, what they may or may not have done, nor anybody else that lived there. It was not the land of England, nor was it the possession of the United Nation to offer the settlement closure. If you want to discuss the productivity of the land, that's wonderful, if you want to talk of your right to defend yourself, that is expected but it is not my concern here. The history of the world is, you take what you want and if nobody can prevent you then so be it. That point should be read by all, because here we stand, accusing the jewish people, on land we took ourselves. Accusing those same people of whatever, which our nations put into effect. When the Arab world wanted to retaliate it should've hit at us, from the start.

I understand your point. Both Australia and the Americas were "conquered" But Israel was a land that was faught over all of modern history. The Cruisades lasted many generations until Sala El Din conquered it in the name of Arabs. But reguardless of all of that, Jews have always been in the land and have almost always been a majority, and never conquered and killed people for that land. And have always only settled unsettled areas.

It is a psychological warefare that "Palestinians" are fighting along with terrorism. And the world is a "sucker" that believes them.

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@Binyamin Tsadik,

Yo!

From what I understand this chosen people is a misrepresentation or misinterpretation, but is it not the popular understanding, and is it not the popular understanding of most Jews. If indeed it is, then there is little difference between the chosen people and the superior race of war time Germany. I would be most pleased to be mistaken so do correct me. I know personally many Christians that buy into this chosen people of god being the Jewish people-----------but then again, Christians will believe anything. Don't get ugly with me I am undecided.

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The idea that the Jews are God's chosen people?

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