"Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent...

So how is that a lesson in me preventing sin.I dont think you have any idea but hoped no one would make the request.

What do you mean prevent evil... you mean in your own actions or in the world in general?

I guess I would conclude that evil is a byproduct of free will.

The assumption of divine omnipotence is a theological mistake which makes the problem of evil intractable.

There are a couple of problems with that idea. First, for the traditional Christian, this will not do at all. The idea that free will is somehow incompatible with having no evil, makes hash of the idea of heaven, as there would either be no free will in heaven, or there would be evil in heaven.

But there is more wrong with the idea than that. Suppose you and I are chatting over a cup of coffee, sitting in the window overlooking a park. In the park, we see a group of people brutally assaulting someone. You say, "Hey, we better do something about that (like call the police)", to which I respond, "no, we can't interfere with their free will!" Now, of course, we can see that calling the police does not negate the existence of "free will" (whatever that is), but I am in the position of the supposedly all good, all knowing and all powerful god in my imagined reaction to the brutal assault. Of course, this supposed god could take care of the assault without calling the police, but it does not even do that much to help.

And, of course, the whole free will defense of god argument is dependent upon people actually having free will, and that that is better than not having it, which are things that are generally assumed rather than supported with any evidence. But even assuming those things, the example above shows that free will isn't an excuse at all.

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Pyrrho;116710 wrote:

But there is more wrong with the idea than that. Suppose you and I are chatting over a cup of coffee, sitting in the window overlooking a park. In the park, we see a group of people brutally assaulting someone. You say, "Hey, we better do something about that (like call the police)", to which I respond, "no, we can't interfere with their free will!" Now, of course, we can see that calling the police does not negate the existence of "free will" (whatever that is), but I am in the position of the supposedly all good, all knowing and all powerful god in my imagined reaction to the brutal assault. Of course, this supposed god could take care of the assault without calling the police, but it does not even do that much to help.

I guess you lost me on this analogy a little bit. I would think if everyone possess free will that we would do our best to intervene on behalf of what we thought was morally right, in this case, either call the police or stop the assault ourselves.

**EDIT FOR ADDITION COMMENT**
I'm having a hard time coming up with a good analogy but I guess I could say it would be like being in a building when the owner comes up to you and says you can stay here as long as you like or leave whenever you get ready and you can come back whenever you want. As long as your in the building you are under his protection and his jurisdiction I guess but no one is keeping you there. And once you leave you are on your own and it's when your on your own that the problems arise

Yes, we would try to help, because we are not moral monsters who are evil. But God does not help. And that tells us something very bad about God (if he/she/it/them existed). God does nothing. We can see, from my example, if someone acted as God acts, that someone would not be good. Therefore, God is not good.

Your analogy does not work. First of all, no one chooses to be born; it is a brute fact forced upon one, whether one wants it or not. You were not given the option of living in the Garden of Eden (if that is what you were thinking about). And second, at least with traditional Christianity, one does not morally have the choice to leave life when one wishes (and those in the Garden of Eden, according to the story in Genesis, do not leave willingly; they are evicted). Third, in your analogy, how does such a landlord compare with another landlord who does not install hazards to the property? Is it a good landlord who installs land mines in it?

1. I never claimed we couldn't do good works without God nor act morally nor do I recall this being written in the bible. However, what I am arguing is that we cannot do evil while in God's will.
2. To say God does nothing is just flat out inaccurate IMO. God does everything outside of forcing peoples free will to get them to choose Him IMO. Not to mention that Christians are called to exemplify Christ through their actions and IMO trying to break up a fight peacefully would be pretty Christ like and something I might consider within the will of God and perhaps from a certain point of view, God acting through that individual.

I wasn't referring to the Garden of Eden though I guess I could see how you might have inferred that. I was referring to the choice to be in God's will or not be. In this analogy, the landlord would only be able to help those within his doors(those in his will), I'm not saying he rigged land mines outside the property but just that one is not protected necessarily outside of the property not because he doesn't love them or doesn't want to protect them but because they didn't want his protection or help

I honestly believe it is simply a means to create balance. And to say whether something is "good" or "bad" is simply a concept created by humans. It makes things easier to construct and organize, that way we dont have to put as much work into our thought processes.

You are missing the point. EVERY time that someone gets murdered, raped, sodomized, brutalized, or anything else happens, God could stop it (if there were an omnipotent, omniscient God). Yet God does not stop it. If he did, it would never happen. God NEVER stops it when it happens. The only things that do happen are ALLOWED to happen, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient being. You and I can only do so much, as we are not omnipotent or omniscient. You and I don't know about all the bad things that happen, when they happen, and we lack the power to stop many things even if we did know about them. God, however, has no excuses, as God could act to stop such things if he wanted to (if he existed), but instead, he chooses to not lift a finger to stop such things.

When someone gets brutally raped, if there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, that god knows about it (being omniscient), could do something about it (being omnipotent), but the simple fact is, god does not stop it from happening. God WILLFULLY lets it happen. Such a god is evil, not good, pure and simple. (Unless, of course, there simply is no god.)

But if God is omnipotent, he could help everyone, whether they choose to be in his doors or not. Besides, bad things happen to believers, so God obviously does not protect all of those who ask for protection, or are "in his house". qualities.

I think you raise some good points without a doubt but I would just say this. Keep in mind that God isn't the one doing the evil nor condoning the evil in fact He want's people to do the opposite. Can you call someone evil when they themselves did not do the evil deed and in fact beg people not to?
I don't disagree that God could stop all evil from happening but not without breaching our free will something He doesn't do IMO. And God remains where He always is, but it is us who remove ourselves from Him.

God could help everyone but not everyone wants Gods help; a decision He obviously grants. No doubt bad things happen to believers but they also are aware that their life were never intended to be a bed of roses and they also have the comfort of knowing God is with them, but other than that I have no answer other than to say we do know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him(Rom 8:28)

But, if God is permitting the evil to occur, but does nothing to prevent it, what then?

And, in the case of natural evils like hurricanes, or typhoons, or earthquakes, or floods, preventing the evil that occurs as a consequence would have nothing to do with free will, since none of these evils, and their consequences are the product of human action.

God is permitting the evil to occur only from the point of view that the evil is occurring outside of what God wants.

you call them natural evils but a hurricane, a typhoon, an earthquake, or a flood is in not in and of itself evil. It is a thing. That would be like me saying my chair is evil or that rock over there is evil.

1. Yes. That is what "permitting evil" means. But have you an other point?

2. Yes, I agree. Typhoons are not intrinsically evil in themselves. But they can cause great evil. But how does that make any difference?

say your in my house and I tell you not walk out the front door but you walk out anyway, have I permitted you to walk out the door?

I would simply like to see your definition of evil. Pain is not intrinsically evil nor is hardship, why even before the biblical account of the fall of man people were still going to have to "cultivate and keep the land up". I don't know about you but that sounds like hard work to me.