The Speed of Time.

@Aristoddler,

The only way to continue this conversation is for everyone to stop assuming that you know ANYTHING. Everyone keeps mentioning experts say this and experts say that. How can someone be an expert on something which happened before mankind was even a blip on the radar. How can someone claim to be an expert on something outside of human comprehension. The only thing they are an expert of is the classification and restriction of the universe to match the ego of the human condition.

We don't KNOW anything. The longer you think you know something, the harder it will be for you to actually learn something. I am not looking at possibilities based upon assumptions which were based upon assumptions which were based upon assumptions of how things work. I trust only what I can experience. If I cannot experience the destruction or creation of matter then i cannot "believe" that matter is finite. If I cannot see the creation of something from nothing then I cannot "believe" that the universe was nothing before the big bang. To say that is to say that you have given up on finding answers. There is an infinite amount of knowledge in the universe and we have not even touched upon the smallest known fraction of what we are capable. Break out of the box of books and ideas written by men who stroke their own ego so often it has developed a raw spot and instead, trust your intuition and desire to know the truth rather than someone elses idea of it. Then we will be able to continue.

right now, we are going in the circles of most armchair philosophy discussions in which no one is willing to admit they are wrong. I have yet to state that I am right and instead have been presenting possibilties.

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@Aristoddler,

"So" why say it..if you know your right in your own "Minds"?

Fight or "Flight"? <---May seem stupid to some..others I bet got it!

Fight: You want to fight about what you know? Run
Flight: You want to learn even more? Fly

If you all ready came to your conclusion..you wouldn't be arguing your point...

Do you really "believe" yourself my "son"?

-TRoN
Not directed at any individual;) Can I change it to Error[4] yet?..lol
-BaC

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@Aristoddler,

I have come to no conclusions. I have a list of possibilties which seem more likely than others and I offer them up to be chewed up and spit out by those with more knowledge. However, I require that any ideas which refute my own be complete and adequate in the same rational ways that mine are. I do not want to hear repetition of books I've read 100 times. I want truly original observations of the world based upon experience. How can someone actually "believe" that there was nothing before there was something? If we have never seen it and have no evidence of it and have no idea of what nothing really is then how can it be?

Length, Width, Height, Time are all measurements that mankind created in order to understand the universe around us. We created scales which we could use to relate ideas. The more we learn about the universe, however, the more we are coming to realize that none of these things hold any true value. They are all perceptions of only one aspect of reality. So I am challenging you guys to prove your point. Don't just throw quotes and experts at me as if to drown me out. Christians do that when they have no more answers. I want to know YOUR thoughts on the subject. I want to know what YOU perceive to be truth. If I want to know what Einstein or hawking think, I'll go to my library and pick up a book. I came here to talk to you.

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@Icon,

Look friend im no academic...we are exchanging points of view on something which the best can not comprehend completely...I have given it quit a lot of thought this void and if you can imaging nothing then you have not thought about it enough..I will ask again how do you measure nothing...???

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@Aristoddler,

You do not. Nothing is simple to imagine. Simply clear your mind of everything. Or rather, imagine what it would be like if you were to clear your mind of everything. No light or darkness, no mass or space, nothing. It does not exist. So I suppose I cannot truly imagine nothing but I can imagine the absence of everything.

By the way, the post above was not directed toward you. I enjoy your comments probably most of all because they are well thought out. I just don't like being told what Hawking and Einstein and Barrow and the likes have said because it requires no thought to spew passage from a book.

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@Icon,

A "wise" man "indeed" Wink

Or maybe an "Icon"..

-TRoN
-The Matrix

Icon wrote:

You do not. Nothing is simple to imagine. Simply clear your mind of everything. Or rather, imagine what it would be like if you were to clear your mind of everything. No light or darkness, no mass or space, nothing. It does not exist. So I suppose I cannot truly imagine nothing but I can imagine the absence of everything.

By the way, the post above was not directed toward you. I enjoy your comments probably most of all because they are well thought out. I just don't like being told what Hawking and Einstein and Barrow and the likes have said because it requires no thought to spew passage from a book.

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

You do not. Nothing is simple to imagine. Simply clear your mind of everything. Or rather, imagine what it would be like if you were to clear your mind of everything. No light or darkness, no mass or space, nothing. It does not exist. So I suppose I cannot truly imagine nothing but I can imagine the absence of everything.

By the way, the post above was not directed toward you. I enjoy your comments probably most of all because they are well thought out. I just don't like being told what Hawking and Einstein and Barrow and the likes have said because it requires no thought to spew passage from a book.

I agree one personal view is worth a million quotes...but how do you measure nothing...

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@xris,

With your best "god" given "tool"...my "son"..

-TRoN

xris wrote:

I agree one personal view is worth a million quotes...but how do you measure nothing...

1 Reply

@BaCaRdi,

BaCaRdi wrote:

With your best "god" given "tool"...my "son"..

-TRoN

I have a foot and several fingers...but i have no coordinates....

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@Aristoddler,

Ohh you have them..your not seeing them is all:P

- 'heckle and jeckel'
- 'Ying Yang'

How does mother bird teach "it's" young to fly?
-"TRoN"
-"GoD"

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@Aristoddler,

Start in that place that exists between your dreams and your waking state. That is your first coordinate to find it. Go from there with your best guess.

Nothing has no measurements. It cannot have measurements. That is my point.

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@Icon,

Icon wrote:

Start in that place that exists between your dreams and your waking state. That is your first coordinate to find it. Go from there with your best guess.

Nothing has no measurements. It cannot have measurements. That is my point.

But its not your point.. you see the void has having depth that can only be seen when you have an occurence.....If it has no measurements it does not exist as you originaly stated it did..you need coordinates to define ...Nothing before the BB is nothing we cant even name let alone conceive..In the begining there was nothing only the word and the word was god...The only bit in the bible that makes sense to me...

1 Reply

@xris,

xris wrote:

But its not your point.. you see the void has having depth that can only be seen when you have an occurence.....If it has no measurements it does not exist as you originaly stated it did..you need coordinates to define ...Nothing before the BB is nothing we cant even name let alone conceive..In the begining there was nothing only the word and the word was god...The only bit in the bible that makes sense to me...

You're mixing ideas. I never said that there was nothing to start with. I said that there was a void. An infinite void. Nothing is not infinite Nor is it finite. Nothing is nothing. The void, however, was something. Particles did not just appear. They were present. perhaps in a wave form but they were present. Then they particle-ized in a single location. Why, perhaps the inadvertent creation of the original observer, perhaps something else. never the less, the particles WERE there, bouncing around in space. They have found a hole in the Universe. This hole is filled with a great deal of "nothing" as you call it but has dimensions. This means that there IS a measurement to the void which once filled the universe in the absence of particle matter.

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@Aristoddler,

E m = Bound state

M e = Bound state

A d = Bound state

C a d m e = Bound state

-BaC

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@Aristoddler,

There is a philosophical misunderstanding here with regard to the INFINITE, and in that if matter is neither CREATED NOR DESTROYED that it must be INFINITE...matter has a start point and an end point : if it didn't it would not, or could not exist. The question is HOW. The start point and end point converge in the CIRCLE, and in that they are one and the SAME. Now a CIRCLE is FINITE, and MATTER must be a CIRCLE or a SPHERE...and if you like to give it all its DIMENSIONS. Now no matter how often one should go round a CIRCLE one would still stand in need of an infinity of oftens : in other words it would still be FINITE. MATTER is the synthesis of the start and end point, and is eternal but FINITE...hope that helps...

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@Anthrobus,

Then explain matter in a wave.

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@Aristoddler,

I did in an earlier post : its the synthesis of the particle and wave, and is neither, and at one and the same time...

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@Aristoddler,

Did you miss it?

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@de Silentio,

de Silentio;10598 wrote:

The speed of light is a constant because no matter how fast a person is travelling toward a beam of light that is moving away from them, that beam of light always travels at a constant speed away from the person.

For example, if I were to throw a baseball 50 mph, then ran after it at 25 mph, the ball is in effect moving away from me at 25 mph and I would eventually catch up with the ball.

If I shine light away from me at 300,000 kps, then run after it at 150,000 kps, it is still moving aways from me at 300,000 kps.

Perhaps this is an absurd question, but, how do you determine the direction of travel of the light in your equation? Even if I accept your suggestion of chasing a single unit of light cast from a fixed point on a fixed, narrow trajectory away from myself, The light is still going to travel TOWARDS the observer and not away from him!

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@Doorsopen,

No kidding "Observer"

I don't know call me "crazy" maybe your mass/charge/chemistry affects measurements clarity..

-TRoN
I would have chosen flight....
-BaC
Or maybe that is why you see it to begin with my "son"
-Di Vinci
***Did you miss the link?*******

Doorsopen wrote:

Perhaps this is an absurd question, but, how do you determine the direction of travel of the light in your equation? Even if I accept your suggestion of chasing a single unit of light cast from a fixed point on a fixed, narrow trajectory away from myself, The light is still going to travel TOWARDS the observer and not away from him!

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