The Hot Stove League

senator mccain weighs in on 'roids, citing MLB's "legitimacy problem"
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1755319

Maybe the politicians can force the owners and the union to do something about steroid use. Left to their own devices, I doubt anything will happen.

It's probably the one thing Bush said in his state of the union speech that I agreed with!

I hate for it to happen this way, Jesus Christ, **** on a shingle..................................

At this point, I don't much care how it gets done, but I do want something done to stop steroid use in baseball. It's a form of cheating, plain and simple. Guys who throw spitballs are punished when they're caught, and the ump can make a pitcher empty his pocket if it looks like he's got a file in there. It's the same thing.

Well, sort of...

I can see it now, the ump making them pee on national TV in a little cup and then he inserts a little paper test strip - there'll never be any doubt again about the size of his bat

BTW, I have never truly understood the reason for disallowing "spit" balls when they allow knuckle and ephis (sp) pitches. I guess it relates to foreign substances.......

Good question re spitballs. I think that, back in the day, pitchers used all sorts of tricks (spit, vaseline, nail files, emery) and were so effective that they had to disallow all that to make it fair to hitters.

I suppose, though, that if MLB continues to permit the hitters to get juiced, then they should also consider letting the pitchers fool with the ball again. Now that might level the playing field--and be fun for the fans!

didn't they allow gaylord (there's a name!) perry to throw spitters after they outlawed them? something about his being a grandfather

MLB basically put their foot down at the time: don't mess with the ball, or the bat. george brett learnt his lesson that day in '83...

---------best baseball tantrum of all time---------

2nd place goes to carl everett's 2001 implosion

Gaylord Perry was often accused of throwing them, but not legally. Lew Burdette of the Milwaukee Braves was also thought to "load up" the ball from time to time. And, of course, Joe Niekro got in trouble about 10 years ago for throwing a file out of his pocket when the ump came to the mound for an inspection...

Gaylord didn't "load" the ball, he cut or scuff the ball - he could do it with just a fingernail, but was more effective with a nail file. Still, he threw a hell of a knuckle ball

When he just used a fingernail, they were (and still are) technically legal.....

Sorry about my confusion re Gaylord Perry's artistry. I should've known better, because he finished his career here in Seattle.

Is it really legal to use a fingernail to affect the ball? I ask because a few years ago, the Braves called the ump's attention to a rival pitcher who they accused of messing with the stitching of the ball with his bare hands. The ump dutifully inspected the ball, and the game continued...

I think that if a ball is determined to be other than its normal - they through it out, as they do if it has dirt or any other thing on it. But, it they can not find any tool or foreign substance, they can not blame the pitcher. Therefore, if you alter the ball with your fingernail, they can't make you get rid of your finger nails. I remember an instance (but not the details) where they made the pitcher take off his belt because of the belt buckle.....

I suppose if you were marking the ball with a fingernail out in front of the full view of everybody - then, they could throw you out of the game.

... and he valiantly finished the inning with his pants down around his ankles...

If they find the ball has been tampered with but don't know how it happened, the umps simply throw out the ball, true. But if they know the pitcher is doing the tampering, he's penalized, yes? I assume that would include creative use of his fingernails...

but D', my point is - without a tool and visually seeing it happen, one can not assume the pitcher did it with his fingernail. Therefore, the reason it is so effective. The miracle is the ability of a pitcher to take advantage of such a small aerodynamic defect. From what I understand, it allows the knuckle ball pitcher to throw their pitchs faster.

As effective a tool is the fastball pitchers (Clemens, Ryan, Gibson, etc) who brush the batter off the plate - or, actually hit them. A momentary mental flinch at 100+ mph is very devastating

barry bonds figured out how to counter those high & tight fastballs -- body armor... he looks wayyy too comfy up there.

Agreed, how does he do it - Bonds begs the pitcher to throw there ........... and, it ain't 'roids

True, Bill. I seem to recall hearing that throwing those illegal pitches isn't easy; in other words, it's not just a question of applying some gunk to the ball or nicking it, then throwing something baffling up there. I'll bet it's becoming a bit of a lost art; used to be there were pitchers who were always suspected to loading up the ball, but now I can't think of any...

Sheffield also used to wear a lot armor. I think the league made those guys remove some of that stuff--and for good reason. If they don't fear the pitcher at least a little, it's home run derby time!