The cult of AA

That's very smart of you JTT. I am going to the dump.

Oh, and the short version of the Serenity Prayer is f--k it.

I'm asking a deadly serious question here, honor bright.

Does anyone else here think sglass might be experiencing a stroke or something?

sglass, seriously, you keep reposting, and asking questions that have already been answered. please see below.

Really, are you feeling all right?

<shudder>

Point taken.

Twas a wee bit of humor, Sglass. I have never, would never watch that ****.

If you go though, my replacement show will be over.

Could we somehow work the dump into the plot?

Why can't a person who has previously had a problem with restraint have a drink? Isn't learning to control the objective, or am I misunderstanding the point of controlling/breaking addiction.

I mean, if I had a self esteem issue that manifested itself by me compulsively spending money, fighting addiction would be me finding mastery of my consumer habit. It think it would be odd to consider myself a consumer addict forever, and the idea that if I ever bought anything meant that I was on the inevitable path to relapse. Is a person who learns to control their wallet a dry-shopping addict years after?

I think I can understand why a person who pulls themself out of addiction would feel apprehension about interaction with their former habit, but the idea that you're an addict still years and years and years later seems to only lend a power to things that I can't seem to understand. Again, I've never had an experience like this, but it seems like if I was needing to break free of addiction, the last thing I'd want is to enforce the idea that in any showdown with it, I'd be out-gunned.

If a person successfully stopped the destructive behaviors of their habits, but did not outright abstain from alcohol, would this be considered a AA success or failure?

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I believe that there is a difference between the physical addiction of, let's just stay with alcohol here for the moment, alcohol and the problem of someone who had a problem with restraint when drinking.

The latter wasn't necessarily an alcoholic, in the addictive sense of the word.

1987? In the program or out of the program.

Something I have been meaning to tell you is the reason MA and I didn't come to the Austin meet is that we did not want to meet you.

I can only speak for myself art, but it never occurs to me to have a drink.

I know that may sound strange, but even when I've been at parties, weddings, restaurants, around other people drinking, I just don't think of having one. I've never thought about it when going through bad times either.

I've actually been surprised when, on the very odd occassion, someone will ask "You're not having anything to drink?"

I dunno, I just say "No, I don't want one, thanks"
The conversations never gone beyond that.

I guess, thinking about it now, I didn't go into this thinking I'd find a way to start again, or that I'd be interested in trying.

So, for me, it wasn't really a matter of learning restraint. More of, this is something that is just so foreign to me now. It really doesn't even exist.

I still want to know how we can work the dump into the plot.

But we will be attending the Big 75 in San Antonia. Big, big cult meeting!

I doubt either of ya'll were missed.

Sure. I don't mean to complicate things. I only meant to drink a metaphor. As I understand the 12 steps would be considered applicable to a person with a shopping compulsion as well. I was wondering how the concept of a dry-drunk would translate to other actions.

I guess I'm trying to find an understanding of what constitutes a drunk/addict in terms of AA.

I'm gathering from context, that if you form destructive habits and successfully stop drinking, you're an addict. If you, at any point there after, consume any alcohol, you're considered relapsed. There is no distinction made in the program between the consumption of the alcohol be it to the same old destructive action or to a more normal level (like that of a person who has never demonstrated destructive behaviors).

So if an addict and I go and drink a single beer. Show how it seems that our actions are different in the eyes of AA, and yet there is no difference in terms of relapse between the former addict having one beer and drinking a 5th of vodka.

Does AA have a grey space; am I reading it too black and white?

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keep the non sequiturs comming.

There seems to be some personal clashes that are beyond the scope (more so that the normal personal clashes on A2K) that I think may be inhibiting some people from addressing the topic without blood in the mouth. I think both persons, would agree the topic here is important enough that neither would wish to distract from it.

Drama has a narrative, and it's easy to engage it. I see this topic best discussed without either drama or a character narrative. I think it's already personal enough for people to discuss addiction.

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You seem more inappropriate than usual, Sglass. I hope all is well with you.

I'm no expert on them but one would hope that they wouldn't want to experiment. I also thought that the individual had to come to the point themself to say "I am" that drunk.

Would AA turn any kind of "drunk" awa;, a loud drunk, a physically addicted drunk, a 'harm the family' drunk, a 'losing friends' drunk, a ... ?

I know that you are a very curious and a very bright man. You should check out a meeting talk to some old-timers that are always there to answer questions.

I have gone to some fabulous meetings in the DC area.

That there tells you that AA has a place.

hmmmm....

I guess I look at it like someone who used to smoke a pack or 2 a day, quitting, then having a cigarette after 15 years of not smoking.

First of all, why would someone who hasn't smoked in 15 years even want a cigarette, or even think of one, beyond a passing fancy. (BTW, I add that about a passing fancy, because I realized that a couple of times I have come in from working outdoors, hot and sweaty, and thinking how good a cold bear would taste. I don't think that's a sign of impending doom, more that you know that would taste good. I could see the same once in a while notion about a cigarette, but it passes in 2 seconds)

If you do smoke a cigarette, it's much more likely you'll smoke a 2nd one, than if you never smoked the first.
The odds of picking up smoking again are higher if you keep indulging it.

How many meetings do you go to these days Chai?