The cult of AA

@JTT,

What would happen if I went to an AA meeting? Would they attempt to determine if I needed to be there or would it be about convincing me that I needed to be there independent of any behaviors or habits?

Not specifically me, but I'm curious if anyone who goes is assumed to be an addict. If someone said, that they only occasionally had a drink with friends, would they treated as if they had a problem?

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@Sglass,

Does one have to continue attending meetings in order to phone AA and say, "I'm scared, I think I might have a drink, I need help"?

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@chai2,

I get ya.

I was only curious if the objective for people tends to be to regain control or to outright quit. People may be put in social situations much like the one you've described, and I was wondering if the goal was to abstain or demonstrate restraint.

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@DrewDad,

When you learn the difference between chicken salad and chicken **** let me know DD.

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@Sglass,

Serenity Prayer, folks.

Could you tell me how it goes?

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

There seems to be some personal clashes that are beyond the scope (more so that the normal personal clashes on A2K) that I think may be inhibiting some people from addressing the topic without blood in the mouth. I think both persons, would agree the topic here is important enough that neither would wish to distract from it.

Drama has a narrative, and it's easy to engage it. I see this topic best discussed without either drama or a character narrative. I think it's already personal enough for people to discuss addiction.

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art, I think I've been behaving with civility, simply trying to get beyond dart throwing. I'm looking for a discussion also. I'm trying to ignore sglass unless a direct question is asked of me. I'm sorry if questions are being asked and answered, but not registered. I was not trying to troll, and not trolling now, when I said (say) sglass is doing nothing but making my point very well.

Please let's continue do failures art...

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@failures art,

I've only little (personal) knowledge about how AA works here in Germany and none about the USA.

But I do know about other self help groups. They would most certainly tell you something what they do etc (such a person would be a great change in the normal group/meeting 'procedure').
And then they would tell you perhaps to drink less. Perhaps give you some brochures, addresses where you could talk to professionals. But tell you most certainly that this group was only for alcoholics ...

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@Sglass,

Sglass wrote:

I know that you are a very curious and a very bright man. You should check out a meeting talk to some old-timers that are always there to answer questions.

I have gone to some fabulous meetings in the DC area.

Oh, I'm not interested in any sort of counselling or support. I was only inquiring to better understand the structure of the process and how certain concepts are communicated inside of it.

I think however this might be the dialog I'm interested in though: One where I may say "I'm not an addict" and wanting to know what the AA member's response is. Do they evaluate my actions/behaviors, or do they hold out for me to realize that I have a problem? What would I (or anyone) need to demonstrate that they did not need to be at AA?

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My questions aren't addressed at anyone in particular, unless they are.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I'm very interested in any sort of cultural patterns in the success/failure of help groups like AA in other countries. Do you think that a program like AA could be less successful in one culture, where it might be more successful in another?

In other words, do the 12 steps fit more cleanly with some societal values better than others?

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This,

Does one have to continue attending meetings in order to phone AA and say, "I'm scared, I think I might have a drink, I need help"?

was a real question. But let me rephrase it better.

Is AA, given what some have suggested, likely to dump a person completely, as cults sometimes do, if they broke away, trashed AA, stopped going to meetings, ... or are they always there, if one needs help?

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@failures art,

I realize that your questions were out of curiosity. It is always good to get your information first hand. That is why I suggested going to a meeting. Got a friend in trouble check out an alanon meeting. Sober is a way of life, not a cult.

The bottom line is if a person is looking to control the drink or drug, the drink or drug is already controlling the person.

Sg

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

I get ya.

I was only curious if the objective for people tends to be to regain control or to outright quit. People may be put in social situations much like the one you've described, and I was wondering if the goal was to abstain or demonstrate restraint.

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whew....I'm trying to think how to say this.....for me, it's.....neither.

it's like, there's no reason to abstain, because there's nothing there for me to abstain from.

this sounds really dumb, but I can't think of a better example than....

If you were at a female friends house, and saw a dress of hers folded over the back of a chair, would you have to abstain from trying it on, or show restraint?

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@chai2,

A clear metaphor.
R
Thank you.

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@failures art,

I'm not sure - but I don't think so.

The situation here (and in some other European countries) is different because we have had 'abstinence groups" since the end of the 19th century.

These various "abstainers’ societies" (mainly run connected to charities of the catholic and Protestant churches) worked until the 50's/60's of the 20th century. The members at that time practiced abstinence in solidarity without being addicts themselves.

And then - surely due to the work of AA-groups - they changed to self-help and helpers' communities for sufferers from addiction and their families.

I think that the 12 steps are for some, other group work better for others.
(I've worked in/with several different institution for addicts - part of the work with clients was to decide which group could be the best for her/him to attend.)

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@chai2,

Quote:

If you were at a female friends house, and saw a dress of hers folded over the back of a chair, would you have to abstain from trying it on, or show restraint?

Well, I never! You don't have to get personal!

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@JTT,

I have never seen AA shut it's door on anyone. That door is always open to the sick, suffering alkie. The hand of AA is always there for the people that reach out.

I'd be dead today if it weren't for AA. I was not a high bottom drunk.

We are not bad people trying to get good, we are sick people trying to get well.

God willing, the creek don't rise and the cow doesn't dry up I will be celebrating my 30th year in the program in Boston next March. The hall has already been reserved, I am lining up my speakers and there will be a party afterwards at Legal Seafoods.

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@Sglass,

Sglass wrote:

The bottom line is if a person is looking to control the drink or drug, the drink or drug is already controlling the person.

I can agree to that to a degree.

If however, a person is looking to control their diet, I don't think they have an eating disorder. It can simply be that they are trying to learn a healthier way to live, and undo old habits. I don't that by virtue of attempt to retrain themselves, they are instantly under the power of addiction to their diet. Certainly that could be the case, but I can't see it as being universal.

I think my views and understanding of alcohol addiction are similar. A person could one day say "Damn, cocktails are expensive! I'm only going to bring a limited amount of cash with me when I go out with my friends." I think in this case, a person is demonstrating self control. I think the AA philosophical lens may filter an event like this in a different light.

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@Sglass,

Thanks, Sglass for all that info. It all, and I ain't jestin' none, warmed me right on down to the top of my boot soles.

Give my best to Merry.

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@JTT,

For instance here on the BI a long time aa member got into some dreadful trouble and will be going to a fed prison.

AA folks got together and helped this person. Landscaping people in the program are taking care of the yard, other people cleaned the house, sold stuff over Craig's List to raise money for legal fees etc. Working on getting the house and car sold. Getting a container to ship stuff to this persons family on the mainland. This weekend there will be a huge yard sale to raise more money.

In AA this is called unconditional love. We can love the person without loving the behavior.

AA does not turn its back on its members when the chips are down.

I don't think I am in any danger of picking up a drink even if I did not attend meetings. I go today for the newcomer. I go for the message.

Most alkies are cantankerous control ridden so and sos', myself no exception and I can stand out there and shake my dust mop at windmills with the best of them.

1 Reply

The cult of AA

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