51
   

May I see your papers, citizen?

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:14 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:


The Arizona Bill was passed with a party line vote-- Every single Republican voted for it, every single Democratic state senator elected by citizens of Arizona voted against it.


Sounds like the Republicans were not elected by citizens of Arizona. Way to spin it.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:17 pm
@roger,
I didn't mean to imply that Republicans were not elected by citizens of Arizona... I meant to counteract the implication that this represents the will of all Arizonans. I would edit my post to add the phrase "elected by citizens of Arizona" to modify each instance of the word Republican.

The point is, this bill was pushed through by Republicans with a good deal of opposition from Democrats (both sides representing the Arizona citizens who elected them).


0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:20 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
The Arizona Bill was passed with a party line vote-- Every single Republican voted for it, every single Democratic state senator elected by citizens of Arizona voted against it. The governor who signed it into law was a Republican. Previous similar anti-immigrant bills were vetoed by a Democratic governor.
refusing to support things that the citizens want done sounds like a sure way for Arizona Democrats to continue to lose elections. I was not aware of how the vote went, but I am confident that Arizona independents for sure, and Democrats perhaps, support this bill.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
refusing to support things that the citizens want done sounds like a sure way for Arizona Democrats to continue to lose elections.


That remains to be seen, doesn't it.

0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:29 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
There are extra Federal funds? Laughing


Dollars. Yuan. They'll be happy with whatever they can get. Smile
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:39 pm
Ha, from Twitter

Celebrating Cinco de Carry your ASS back across the Border if you are an Illegal Alien.... in a couple of days..
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:47 pm
Last go at this problem from Arizona the Dems split. It was signed by a Dem Gov though she was not happy about it....political reality forced her hand she said.
Quote:
The Fair and Legal Employment Act (House Bill 2779) took effect Jan. 1, 2008. The law imposes
stiff sanctions on businesses that hire undocumented immigrants. Penalties include the suspension
and revocation of business licenses for those found to have "knowingly" or "intentionally"
employed an undocumented worker. The law also mandates that employers use the federal Basic
Pilot Program/E-Verify to screen new hires for employment eligibility, and encourages citizens to
contact local sheriffs or county attorneys about businesses they suspect of hiring undocumented
immigrants.1
House Bill 2779 passed the House by a 47-11 vote and the Senate 20-4, and was signed by
Democratic Gov. Janet Napolitano on July 2, 2007. All Republican legislators who voted were for
House Bill 2779, while Democrats were more divided on the issue, with 20 voting in favor and 15
against the bill. Three Republican and five Democratic lawmakers did not vote on the bill.
http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/5777.pdf
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:47 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I'm for legalizing everyone who is here, as well - so it's not a partisan thing.

Cycloptichorn


But there you run into another problem.

Lets say, for the sake of this duscussion, that today you legalize every illegal immigrant in the country RIGHT NOW.
What are you going to do with those that are here illegally next year?

If you reward someone for breaking the law, how can you tell someone else that they will be punished for breaking the same law?
I have read the AZ law, and while I think its a good idea on paper, I'm still hesitant about how it will be enforced.

If someone is here illegally, they are violating the law and should be arrested and deported, period.
You cannot reward some for criminal acts and punish others for those same criminal acts.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:51 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
But there you run into another problem.

Lets say, for the sake of this duscussion, that today you legalize every illegal immigrant in the country RIGHT NOW.
What are you going to do with those that are here illegally next year?
we did that once already, it did not work. At the time we said that we would never ever ever do it agian, that it was a one time deal. The Mexicans never really believed us.

Do we really want to take this chick **** easy way out short term solution....again??
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:52 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

What are you going to do with those that are here illegally next year?


I'm going to legalize them too. Then I will take their tax monies.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a massive expansion of legal immigration as well... to the point where people don't have to sneak over the border.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:53 pm
@hawkeye10,
If you had read my entire post, you would see I was responding to a statement Cyclo made.
I do not now, nor have I ever, supported amnesty of any kind.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I'm going to legalize them too. Then I will take their tax monies.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a massive expansion of legal immigration as well... to the point where people don't have to sneak over the border.
why would anyone take the road that takes years of waiting in their home country waiting for permission, when permission is not required??

Do you think Mexicans are stupid??
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:55 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
If you had read my entire post, you would see I was responding to a statement Cyclo made.
I do not now, nor have I ever, supported amnesty of any kind.
I did, I was speaking in support of that position.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I'm going to legalize them too. Then I will take their tax monies.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a massive expansion of legal immigration as well... to the point where people don't have to sneak over the border.
why would anyone take the road that takes years of waiting in their home country waiting for permission, when permission is not required??

Do you think Mexicans are stupid??


No, I don't. But I doubt people will try to break the law when there's no point in doing so.

I don't have a problem with a fine for those who are here illegally... they can pay the fine and stay, just like a lot of other infractions.

Then again, I'm not rabidly against an influx of outsiders like you seem to be.

Cycloptichorn
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Sure, what's wrong with living in a Police State, where you have to carry documentation on you at all times or face arrest?

Not a lovely future that you are envisioning there


No it isn't, but if that is what Arizonians want for themselves, then they should be entitled to it. My problem is if that is what they want for some Arizonians of Mexican decent and not for themselves.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:57 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So you would legalize ANYONE that comes to the US illegally, no matter what the consequences?

engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

I dont think Arizona wants to round up large numbers of people, I think they want the Mexicans to know that they can at any time pick them up and send them home.

Exactly. They don't want to live in a state where they might be sent to jail for taking an evening walk without id, but they're fine if their US citizen neighbor with dark skin gets hauled in.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 04:59 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Then again, I'm not rabidly against an influx of outsiders like you seem to be.
I am not against taking people in, but in my view we should only do it if it is good for America. Every person who is a citizen of another country is that other counties problem, not ours...I don't give a flying **** what those people want.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 05:00 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

So you would legalize ANYONE that comes to the US illegally, no matter what the consequences?


Why not? I don't really give a **** that they are here, I just want their money!

I mean, do you really care that they are here? Let them take a citizenship class and become a citizen like anyone else, if that's what they want. How does this hurt you, exactly?

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2010 05:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Then again, I'm not rabidly against an influx of outsiders like you seem to be.
I am not against taking people in, but in my view we should only do it if it is good for America. Every person who is a citizen of another country is that other counties problem, not ours...I don't give a flying **** what those people want.


Why wouldn't it be good for us? We have a long way to go before reaching optimum population density, and more people is hardly a bad thing in the long run.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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