9
   

Racial stereotypes

 
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 01:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
talking to you is useless in expanding the understanding of where blacks have gone wrong


What you just said to Gargamel is equally true of you, Hawkeye.

I don't see you expanding anyone's understanding of the reasons that so many black people continue to live at the low end of the economic ladder, or the difficulties these people face when they try to improve their lot in life.

What about poor white people? Would the things you have said about poor blacks apply equally to them? If so, why not drop the racial identifier, and just discuss the causes of poverty and the possible solutions to the problem? If not, how would you explain the differences between poor whites and poor blacks?

I assume you have been talking about only poorer blacks, since your remarks make no sense when applied to the entire black population of the U.S..

MASSAGAT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 10:33 pm
Gargamel wrote:

You mean telling racist old bitches to shut the **** up? Then call me Nat Turner.
***************************************************************************

Who can argue with such logic?

Nat Turner? You mean this man?

For the next forty hours, Turner and a varying number of followers (perhaps as many as eighty at the height of the rebellion) attacked a series of farms, executing at least fifty-seven white people, on their way to Jerusalem, the Southampton County seat.

*********************************************************************

But he was vindicated, wasn't he, Gargamel? Even now, millions of black people read of the saintly Nat Turner and note:

"See, there ain't no way to make it in this racist society...Lawanda. Lawanda, have you called the welfare office yet to see what's holding up our check!!!"
MASSAGAT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 11:17 pm
Firefly- I am curious. You have not rebutted any of my posts which showed and PROVED the the black culture of victimology is dysfunctional. Why? Too tough for you to handle?

You wrote:

I don't see you expanding anyone's understanding of the reasons that so many black people continue to live at the low end of the economic ladder, or the difficulties these people face when they try to improve their lot in life.

What about poor white people? Would the things you have said about poor blacks apply equally to them? If so, why not drop the racial identifier, and just discuss the causes of poverty and the possible solutions to the problem? If not, how would you explain the differences between poor whites and poor blacks?
************************************************************************

l. Ridiculous--Everyone faces difficulties, Even the poor Korean or Cambodian when they come to this country. They do not cry "racism". Their children do well in school. The people are hard working and law abiding. Blacks, most ofwhom are in the ghetto, but some in the middle class,with their dysfunctional cultures, are constantly complaining of "racism".

2. What about poor white people? What about them? When I see White Preachers on the evening news fulminating about their "poor " constituencies, or when I see White Politicians telling us that the "poor" white voters in their districts are being discriminated against, then, and only then, will I begin to examine the problem of poverty. What you fail to understand, Firefly, is that there is a culture which is endemic among blacks, especially in the ghetto,which says that they are "victims" and cannot make it in our society, There are always race carders at hand-Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and others .

I am unaware of such people speaking for "poor" whites.

Do you really want to know the Causes of Poverty?

I'll tell you what some of the Causes are--do you know that our Poor are quite a bit better off than the poor all over the world? Do you doubt that? If you do, I can give you evidence, (which you don't pay attention to anyway since you seem to be a "knee-jerk" apologist for dysfunctional culture ) about the poor of the world.

One of the causes, firefly, is that there is a median. Yes, firefly, a median. HALF of the people of the USA are above the median in income and half are below.

Some people, for a wide variety of reasons, Whites, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, never rise above the median. Others, Whites, Asians, Blacks, Hispanics, do rise above the median. There is evidence( which I am sure you will not note or, perhaps, understand, that not all people remain in the tenth lowest percentile or thetwenty fifth lowest percential.

Many people gain fiscally because of determination, parental interest and support, hard work, and a culture that values Education.

Some do not.

And, if you think that most of the blacks in the ghetto value education enough to imitate Asian parents, I urge you again to review the SAT statistics( which, of course, you will not do since it invalidates your unproven and unsourced generalities.

If you really want to learn about Race and Culture, You should read "Race and Culture" by Thomas Sowell, an African American Professor. You are probably not aware, firefly, that the Chinese are called "The Jews of the Far East". Why?
Because they have reached the top of the business ladder in many countries in Asia outside of China DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY, THE CHINESE ARE BARRED FROM HOLDING OFFICE IN MAY OF THOSE COUNTRIES AND HAVE SOME LAWS WHICH PUT THEM AT A DISADVANTAGE JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE CHINESE.

Blacks in this country have no such barriers to their advancement. Colleges eagerly leap to admit even those blacks who are borderline so that they can burnish their enrollment figures.

Why don't you do some reading, firefly. It is clear that you know very little about Race and Culture.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 11:50 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
Firefly- I am curious. You have not rebutted any of my posts which showed and PROVED the the black culture of victimology is dysfunctional. Why? Too tough for you to handle?

MASSAGAT, quite frankly, the uninformed nonsense you are posting isn't worth my time to reply. If ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy person. You aren't interested in learning anything, you already think you know it all. Sorry if you feel ignored.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 01:43 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
Nat Turner? You mean this man?

For the next forty hours, Turner and a varying number of followers (perhaps as many as eighty at the height of the rebellion) attacked a series of farms, executing at least fifty-seven white people, on their way to Jerusalem, the Southampton County seat.


Considering what Blacks went thru in the South at the hands of whites, I'd say that Nat and his followers were downright generous.

Consider what the USA does when just a limited number of its own are killed. Consider what the USA does when none of those people are even responsible for Americans dying.

Iraq 100,000 +
Vietnam 3 to 4 million
Nicaragua 10,000 +
Panama 3000 +
...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 01:45 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
It is clear that you know very little about Race and Culture.


It's clear that you know just enough to be racist.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 01:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
You are not prepared to participate.


This much you have helped me to realize. Indeed I am not prepared to participate in a "dialogue" with someone to whom "analysis" consists of... whatever the **** he feels like.

Just look at all the holes in your last post. How else would one come to a "personal understanding" about what the culture is without focusing on individuals? I can't ******* have a personal experience with that nebulous entity known as "culture"--only the people that comprise that culture. And indeed I do have that experience. You don't (don't say you do, because you don't). Which is why you can't be taken seriously.

But there I go again. Participating knowing you'll say something pretty obvious, unfounded, and racist.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 02:01 pm
@MASSAGAT,
MASSAGAT wrote:
Nat Turner? You mean this man?

For the next forty hours, Turner and a varying number of followers (perhaps as many as eighty at the height of the rebellion) attacked a series of farms, executing at least fifty-seven white people, on their way to Jerusalem, the Southampton County seat.


Really? You actually had to look that up?

Well that makes sense, I mean for someone who still says " Afro-American."

Oh, look, it's 3 PM already. Shouldn't you be having dinner? You wouldn't want to miss Wheel of Fortune. Or stay up too late into the early evening.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 05:39 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
What about poor white people? Would the things you have said about poor blacks apply equally to them? If so, why not drop the racial identifier, and just discuss the causes of poverty and the possible solutions to the problem? If not, how would you explain the differences between poor whites and poor blacks?

I assume you have been talking about only poorer blacks, since your remarks make no sense when applied to the entire black population of the U.S..

I have long said that class matters more than race. The problem for the blacks is that black culture is controlled by the poor. Those who got out participate in the majority culture much more than in the black subculture, the middle class blacks are neither part of this problem nor the subject here.

You are trying to compare poor blacks with poor whites. You should notice that trailer trash and rednecks don't have their own music, fashion and politicians who pander to them as the black culture has. They have a lifestyle but it is not anything that is taken seriously, promoted, or glorified. Poor whites are at least smart enough to know that they can and should be better than they are, take some responsibility for their situation, and dont play the victim card constantly.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 06:17 pm
I went to see "Fences" at the Seattle Repertory Theater last night, and highly recommend it. In my opinion the top three subjects are 1)family relationships 2) being black in the 1950's 3) what the soul needs.

I was taken when the father was lecturing one of his kids about how duty to others comes first, the first duty is to family. The kid talks about how times have changed, and he needs to look out for himself first by playing music, even though he cant make a living at it.

The other son has it out with the dad because he wants to play high school football, and has recruiters after him for college. The dad said that school and work comes before football, and makes him quit football. The kid then hates his dad

Cut to the end where the music loving not willing to work kid ends up as a good for nothing, and the wanta be football player still hates his dad, but is a successful Marine. He is a man, his brother is not.

The whole "times have changed" argument is instructive, because it points to the beginning of the end for black culture. Here are the seeds of the "me generation" and the laziness that infected us all, but did more damage in the black community because it was at the very same time that they needed to be working harder than everyone else in order to get up to speed, as new opportunities opened up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fences_(play)
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 12:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye, I saw "Fences" during it's original Broadway run with James Earl Jones in 1987. It is a very good play. I've seen at least two of August Wilson's other plays--"Ma Rainey's Black Bottom" and "The Piano Lesson" and they were also very, very good.

Actually, when I think of "black culture" I think of writers like Wilson, and all of the other talented black writers, musicians, artists, choreographers etc, whose work is shaped by the black experience and heritage, and then ultimately influences our entire culture. I personally have problems with using the term "black culture" to refer to the sorts of socio-economic factors and social-racial problems and group norms that have been discussed in this thread. I really don't equate those things with "culture", perhaps because, in 2010, the black population in America is too diverse to be accurately described by any of the common group characteristics that define a cohesive entity like a "culture".

"Fences" , being set in the late 1950's and ending in the mid-1960's, does take place when profound social change and social activism was starting to erupt in the larger society, and those changes often brought ugly and violent confrontations. An awful lot of anger, on all sides, was unleashed, and some of that anger continues to simmer today. Legally it was a time when the civil rights movement started to open more opportunities for blacks, but an awful lot of other things were also going on that may also have intensified resentments toward blacks, and even fears of blacks, at the very time that blacks were becoming empowered and able to speak and act with more force and anger and determination than had been the case before. Schisms of all kinds were occurring, in the larger society, and within the black community, and "Fences" does foreshadow that with the generational conflicts shown in play.

Hawkeye, I don't know why you conclude that this was "the beginning of the end for black culture", or that laziness then infected and damaged the black community by diminishing ambition. What happened was quite the opposite. Once opportunities opened up, blacks began taking taking advantage of them, and they began gradually moving, as a group, out of poverty and into the middle class and beyond. They also gradually gained more political power, with black mayors, black governors, black congressmen and congresswomen, black judges. But, just because institutionalized racial barriers fell, racism and discrimination didn't disappear from the larger society, and long festering social problems within the black community didn't disappear, particularly for those who encountered problems climbing the economic ladder, and the continuation of those social problems has kept a disproportionate number of working class poor black people angry, alienated, and economically disadvantaged.

Blighted poorer black neighborhoods spawn crime, drugs, and violence.The working class poor who live in these enclaves of violence, drugs, and crime watch their young men die at 18 or 19, or go to jail, and see their daughters become pregnant at 14 or 15 or 16, and after a while that becomes your way of life. I really think that people try to become numb to it because it is really overwhelming. It's not that people don't want better lives, and more for their children, they do. But it's hard to actualize it, and move toward it, while you are still living in these places. These aren't just poor neighborhoods, these are very dangerous places to live, let alone raise children. And they are no longer in just the inner cities, they are in the suburbs as well.

One doesn't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to have some simple basic human compassion for people--perfectly decent hardworking people--who are still economically trapped in blighted residential communities that make it difficult for their children, growing up in such places, to emerge unscathed and equipped to move on to better lives. I really don't hear black people in these neighborhoods complaining about being victims, at least not about being victims of racism or discrimination, although racism and discrimination do certainly exist and do affect them. They mainly complain about crime, violence, drugs, the high cost of food, a lack of job training opportunities, a lack of affordable housing, things which they, as individuals, really have little power to change. And it is hard to see how anything can change without better intervention and resources in these communities, not handouts, but meaningful resources. And the problems in these communities don't stay confined there, they spill over and affect the larger society, they wind up affecting all of us. It is in everyone's best interest to address these problems.

In one predominantly black suburban community, that I personally know about, the crime rate, which was fairly high before, has jumped over 40% in the past year alone, and, during that period the local police force was undermanned. Undermanned! 20% of the children under aged 18 in this community live below the poverty line. They aren't just poor, they are below the poverty line, which pretty much means you cannot survive without external assistance.

In the last month, the high school in this community was closed down twice due to large brawls breaking out inside the school, possibly due to long standing conflicts between black and Latino students. The same thing happened two years ago, and, at about that same time, a student was killed across the street from the school as he walked home after classes. Gang violence, and problem students create a constant level of tension and fear in this school of about 1700 students. To say it is hard to learn in this atmosphere is an understatement. But many do, and they move on to attend colleges, and hopefully to promising lives. But under 50% of the students even manage to graduate. Not just because of the problems within the school itself, but because what's going on within the school reflects the violence and chaos and divisiveness that infects the whole community in which they are being raised.

After the most recent school closings due to violence, the school board called a community meeting and hundreds of very concerned parents and students attended. These people were far from being apathetic, and they were quite angry about being victimized by a fairly small but very disruptive group within the school. They were rightly demanding action. They want their children educated, they want their children safe.

Quote:
The forum began quietly with presentations and comments from school officials. Later, emotions ran high as students burst into tears describing their experiences and parents loudly demanded answers.

During the meeting, Shanita Ray, 17, the school's senior class vice president, wept as she described life as a student to the crowd. "None of you walk the hallways at Hempstead High School," she said. "None of you sit in the classrooms - you have no idea how scary it is."

Roxanne Jones, a parent whose 16-year-old daughter is a junior at the school, said she hopes her daughter will be safe. "I sit at work by my phone waiting to hear what's going on," Jones said. "I just sit and think, 'Oh, God. I want to hear that she got home safe.' "

Moments before the meeting began, Olive Warner and Alpha Callender said they were seeking assurance their freshman daughter would be safe in classes following two days in which police were called and Hempstead High School students were dismissed early last week.

"If I don't hear what I want to hear, I'm pulling my child out," Warner said before the meeting.

Two hours later, the couple said they were dissatisfied and would look to enroll their 14-year-old at a private school.

"Why are we here?" said Callender as the meeting, attended by Superintendent Patricia Watkins and school board members, ended. "They didn't say anything. They are missing everything," he said, visibly upset at school officials' reactions.

Many parents said they were frustrated and uneasy about sending their kids to school this week.

School officials pledged to root out problem students and send them to an alternative school they have said they will rush to open as a result of the disturbances.


Now, obviously, all parents can't afford to take their children out of that school and send them to a private school. The many, many others, who want their children to be safe, and get good SAT scores, and go on to college and good careers, are going to have to keep doing battle with some pretty formidable forces.

Is it any wonder that less than 50% of the students graduate from a school like this? Should the children in this school have to fear walking the halls or sitting in the classrooms?

Saying that people are lazy, or fail to teach their children the value of an education, as an explanation for continued cycles of poverty in poorer black neighborhoods, is so off base and simplistic that it's almost laughable. People in these communities are struggling with very complex, very deeply rooted, social problems. And the odds of winning aren't good.





hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 01:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
One doesn't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to have some simple basic human compassion for people--perfectly decent hardworking people--who are still economically trapped in blighted residential communities that make it difficult for their children, growing up in such places, to emerge unscathed and equipped to move on to better lives. I really don't hear black people in these neighborhoods complaining about being victims, at least not about being victims of racism or discrimination, although racism and discrimination do certainly exist and do affect them. They mainly complain about crime, violence, drugs, the high cost of food, a lack of job training opportunities, a lack of affordable housing, things which they, as individuals, really have little power to change. And it is hard to see how anything can change without better intervention and resources in these communities, not handouts, but meaningful resources. And the problems in these communities don't stay confined there, they spill over and affect the larger society, they wind up affecting all of us. It is in everyone's best interest to address these problems.
we tried all that, over a period of decades, at great expense, working on some of those problems with multiple big government solutions, and then after that with NGO solutions. It never works. At some point you need to come to the conclusion it is not the solutions tried or those who are trying to solve the problem that are the reason for the continual failure, that it is those who are not trying. That would be the victims.

I have come to the conclusion that we long ago became enablers to people who have a huge internal problem that they are not willing to face, and that we can never solve their problem, or even help to solve it, until they hit bottom. That being the case I dont intend to lift a finger until I see some sign that they want to get better. Whinning about what they dont have is the wrong response, I want to see working to do better with what they already have before they come asking for resources.

re the play: I am not an expert in such matters but I read that this rendition of "Fences" is particularly good. from what I understand it is rarely done, but the Seattle rep is known for taking rare good stuff and taking a chance. Our wed night show was almost sold out.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 02:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
I'm glad you got to see a good production of "Fences", Hawkeye. A Broadway revival with Denzel Washington is about to open. Apparently Washington can really understand how the character of Troy limited his son, because of Washington's own experiences with his somewhat shortsighted father.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/theater/news/2010-04-06-denzel-washington07_N.htm
I would imagine that Denzel Washington will be quite good in the role.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Racial stereotypes
  3. » Page 6
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/19/2021 at 04:36:30