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Racial stereotypes

 
 
MASSAGAT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 02:12 am
Hawkeye 10 wrote:

nobody is doing much to fix it either. The first step is to reintegrate the black man into the family, give him a mission besides gang-banging and titillating his nerve endings. Black women need to be a part of this, they need find something else to aspire to other than being super bitches. When they start to act like they need and want men around the world will change.
****************************************************************

Exactly, sir! And I hold and can prove that the basic problem in the black community is not--low IQ--not lingering after effects from slavery but, indeed, black ghetto culture.

Many in the USA(note Gargamel's reluctance to discuss substance) will not agree because they have been completely brainwashed by the left wing's insistence that to make any comment about Afro( I mean African-Americans) is racist.

The race card lives, but the accession of Obama to the Presidency will make it easier for people to criticize Blacks without being tarred with the race card.

Obama's missteps are out in the open for all to see. Any cry of "racism" is, of course, ridiculous!
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 02:12 am
@djjd62,
Great post- djjd62- Funny!!
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 02:16 am
Firefly wrote:

I don't see people in the ghetto, particular the mothers of young men, as being either apathetic or in denial.
end of quote
That is probably due to either your ignorance of what really goes on in the ghetto or a strong left wing bias.

View almost any TV News program in a major city. Do you find that the men and women in the ghetto who are being interviewed find fault with their group?

No, the culprits causing the problems are a. the police b. the rest of society which fails to give the ghetto the resources it needs( even after 50 years of massive transfusions of cash from the Great Society) or c. pure unalloyed racism.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 02:35 am
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
. pure unalloyed racism
Is this code for Asians? all of the other minority races, all of whom have been here less time than the blacks, are keeping the blacks down now too....according to them. I mean, in only two generations the Koreans already have a better standard of living than the blacks, and they dont even take government handouts very often....ipso facto a conspiracy against the blacks has been perpetrated.

firefly
 
  5  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 09:16 am
@MASSAGAT,
Quote:
That is probably due to either your ignorance of what really goes on in the ghetto or a strong left wing bias.

View almost any TV News program in a major city. Do you find that the men and women in the ghetto who are being interviewed find fault with their group?


MASSAGAT, I don't have to rely on tv news, as you apparently do, for all my information about what people think or how they behave. I actually interact with the people who live in poor black neighborhoods--I know first hand what the problems are and how the residents perceive and deal with them. It's one thing to view these things on tv, from a comfortable, detached distance, and quite another thing to actually confront the harsh reality of people's lives and to listen to what they have to say. I find little of the apathy or denial, or externalization of blame, which is apparently all you have gleaned from your tv set.
And, when I speak with the black professionals and college professors I also know, some of whom grew up in such blighted neighborhoods, it is clear that the problems are quite complex, as are the possible solutions. Things should only be as overly simplified as you and Hawkeye are trying to make them out to be, but they aren't, because real life just isn't like that. Turn off your tv and go out into the real world and find that out.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 09:21 am
@firefly,
well said, firefly.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 10:20 am
@firefly,
Quote:
And, when I speak with the black professionals and college professors I also know, some of whom grew up in such blighted neighborhoods, it is clear that the problems are quite complex, as are the possible solutions. Things should only be as overly simplified as you and Hawkeye are trying to make them out to be, but they aren't, because real life just isn't like that.
Who said that the problem was simple? Not I. However, instead of yakking about the problem and instead of making excuses I for one would like to solve it. Simplifying the problem down to the critical missing ingredients is a time tested and approved method of problem solving.

I do have a bias,as I am over listening to black whining about how they have been done wronged and why the problems are so big that they need someone else to fix them, all the while they ain't willing to do squat for themselves. If they want to talk about how they can make a better life for themselves I am all in, otherwise they need to take it down the road to some bleeding heart liberal who will commiserate with them.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 10:39 am
@hawkeye10,
Thank you, Rockhead.

Hawkeye, if you want to compare minority groups more accurately, try comparing two immigrant groups to each other. You are comparing Asian immigrants to blacks who are not likely part of an immigrant population, but who are the descendents of people who were more likely brought here as slaves.

Look at some statistics for African immigrants--those who immigrated to the U.S. from Africa during their lifetime, and their children. These people, too, are part of the black population in the United States.

Quote:
Africans have the highest educational attainment rates of any immigrant group in the United States, with higher levels of completion than the stereotyped Asian American model minority.Estimates indicate that a significant percentage of black students at elite universities are African or the children of African immigrants, a notable example of this is Barack Obama.

Harvard University, for example, has estimated that two-thirds of their black population is not traditional Afro Americans. This is true for other universities such as Brown, Yale, Princeton, Penn, Columbia, Duke and Berkeley. As a result, the benefits of affirmative action are not efficiently serving traditional multi-generational black Americans who are descendants of American slaves.

In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education, African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any other native-born ethnic group including white Americans. Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly more than the percentage of Asian immigrants to the U.S., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans.

In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult white Americans and 3.8 percent of adult black Americans in the United States, respectively.This information suggests that America has an equally large achievement gap between whites and African/Asian immigrants as it does between white and black Americans.

Of the African-born population in the United States age 25 and older, 86.4% reported having a high school degree or higher, compared with 78. 9% of Asian-born immigrants and 76.5% of European-born immigrants, respectively. These figures contrast with 61.8% percent of the total foreign-born population.Immigrants groups in general tend to have higher high school graduation rates than the native-born general American population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_the_United_States



Quote:
A higher level of education for African immigrants in the United States has not produced a comparable level of income. Despite lower levels of education, Asian immigrants to the U.S. had a median household income that was 37 percent higher than the household income of African immigrants. African immigrants with a far higher rate of college education earned relatively on par with lower-educated European immigrants. Despite the fact that African immigrants were nearly twice as likely as white Americans to hold a college degree, the median household income of African immigrants was 36 percent below the median household income of white Americans. These income statistics may reflect a continuing degree of employment discrimination against people with black skin

http://www.westafricareview.com/issue11/kaba.html



So, Hawkeye, your comparison of Korean immigrants to blacks really explains nothing. You are comparing relatively new immigrants to some blacks, who are presumably the descendents of slaves, and who have had quite a different legacy and history in this country, who live in impoverished neighborhoods and who have become part of an entrenched under-class. There is no reasonable comparison here.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 10:57 am
@firefly,
Quote:
So, Hawkeye, your comparison of Korean immigrants to blacks really explains nothing. You are comparing relatively new immigrants to some blacks, who are presumably the descendent's of slaves, and who have had quite a different legacy and history in this country, who live in impoverished neighborhoods and who have become part of an entrenched under-class. There is no reasonable comparison here.


That's rich. Your taking the black who's family has been here for generations, who have a tradition, know the language, have been the recipient of massive government support, who are full citizens and thus eligible for all the benefits that that implies, and making them underprivileged when compared to the recent immigrants, most of whom had none of those advantages and who's family's until recently could only dream of having the material things that the ghetto blacks have. Have you any idea how poor most of the Hispanics and Koreans for instance were before they came to America?

They had three things the blacks don't have, the willingness to work hard, they have kept their families strong, and they make sure that their kids take advantage of every education opportunity available. Until the Asians got far enough ahead to get out they where in the very same horrible schools that the blacks are, however unlike the blacks, the Asian kids did not let that stop them....they learned outside of school if they had to. The blacks need to stop complaining, look around at those who do it better than they do, and learn something. None of the key ingredients of success are being kepted from them.
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 11:39 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
They had three things the blacks don't have, the willingness to work hard, they have kept their families strong, and they make sure that their kids take advantage of every education opportunity available. Until the Asians got far enough ahead to get out they where in the very same horrible schools that the blacks are, however unlike the blacks, the Asian kids did not let that stop them....they learned outside of school if they had to. The blacks need to stop complaining, look around at those who do it better than they do, and learn something. None of the key ingredients of success are being kepted from them.


Jesus Christ you are delusional. Which of the 41 million blacks are you referring to, specifically? Certainly not all of your black friends, right? Certainly not any of the black high school kids I've taught on weekends for a college prep program. They're crazy smart, despite toiling in the country's shittiest public schools program. And I know this is an obvious barb to throw your way, but they really do seem smarter than you. At least in that they would think hard enough not to litter an "argument" with flimsy terms such as "recent immigrants," and "got far enough ahead out..." What the **** does that even mean?

I'm curious. How should blacks, "not let that stop them," when "that," is not only an utter lack of sound educational resources, but the threat of death? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-09-26/news/0909250431_1_honor-roll-youth-worker-streets

Explain how you "get out." And generalitites aren't going to cut it. Your post is a case study in stereotyping.
Gargamel
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 11:40 am
@Gargamel,
And now, a preemptive Shut the **** Up for Massagat.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 11:42 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
ipso facto a conspiracy against the blacks has been perpetrated.


I heard teenyboone (one of our outspoken black members) say that Bill Clinton had an active campaign in bringing drugs in from foreign countries and trafficking them directly into black neighborhoods. Presumibly to keep them killing each other and addicted to drugs.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 11:56 am
@Gargamel,
I dont care if something is a stereotype or not, I care about truth. If you want to dispute my understanding of the truth kindly pick some topic small enough that we can debate it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 11:59 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
I heard teenyboone (one of our outspoken black members) say that Bill Clinton had an active campaign in bringing drugs in from foreign countries and trafficking them directly into black neighborhoods. Presumably to keep them killing each other and addicted to drugs.
and as we talked about on a2k at least once her perception was not hers alone, it was widespread in the black community. It was grasping at straws to explain why the blacks are not responsible for their failure to produce.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye, that's because the Asians behave just like other immigrant groups--people immigrate for reasons, and a primary reason is to make a better life for themselves in a new country.

The blacks you are talking about may have lived here for generations, but they did not come here as immigrants, and that's not an insignificant factor. Part of the time they were here they were slaves, and, even after that period, they were in inadequate segregated schools, barred from many universities, denied employment opportunities, lived in sub-standard neighborhoods, and generally shoved to the bottom of the heap in our society. What little was left of the black family structure after slavery, the allegedly helpful welfare system helped to finish off by making the black male irrelevant to the support of the family. Black women became the heads of households, and were more successful than black men in obtaining employment and, later on, were more successful in going on to college and obtaining a degree. Those factors tend to work against creating viable marriages, and two parent families, because of the gender gap.

All black people in this country are not living in ghettos.Many blacks are now middle class because they were able to push through many of the obstacles and attain a higher level of education and better jobs. Many are in the professions and management. But well educated black people still do not earn as much as their white counterparts, and even the well educated African immigrants often earn less than their education warrants. There is still some very real discrimination going on.

Hawkeye, to compare those blacks still entrenched in a ghetto situation, to the behavior and background of recent Asian immigrants, or even African immigrants, is like comparing apples to doorknobs. There is no logical basis for the comparison, and you really can't draw meaningful inferences from the comparison.

The problem isn't that poorer blacks, as a group, don't want to work hard, or don't want to see their children get a good education, because they do often work hard, and they want to see their children have a good life. But the problems surrounding them, in their neighborhoods, are truly enormous. And the very high out-of-wedlock birth rate helps to perpetuate conditions of poverty, and the absence of actively involved fathers further compounds the problems. It isn't that these people don't see these problems, turning the situation around isn't as easy or as simple as it might seem. I wouldn't minimize the challenges these people face. Perhaps having our first African American president will help to inspire some positive change in these peoples' lives--giving people hope can be a powerful motivating force.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:23 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But soon, all that will be forgotten -- just as the same kind of despair goes unremembered in similar neighborhoods in Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore, Philadelphia and every other major American city. Entrenched black poverty, with all its causes and implications, barely makes a ripple in the public debate these days.

One major reason, perhaps the major reason, is that crime rates have fallen sharply over the past two decades throughout the country. In 1990 there were 472 homicides in Washington; last year there were just 143, and this year's murder rate is on track to be even lower. The sight of a group of black teenagers downtown doesn't automatically provoke fear in others the way it once did, which is a good thing. But it's not good that people who live in more affluent neighborhoods, or in the suburbs, now seem to believe they don't have to notice those teenagers at all. People look right through them.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/05/AR2010040503548.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

timely observation from a black man. He has it correct, there is compassion fatigue when it comes to the black underclass. I am not the only one who is saying to the blacks "STFU until an unless you decide that you are willing to get to work"
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:29 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Perhaps having our first African American president will help to inspire some positive change in these peoples' lives--giving people hope can be a powerful motivating force
We tried that, it was called the civil rights movement. It worked to get about 1/3 of the blacks up to speed, but they found that they had to abandon the rest to let them stew in their misery in order to do it. The successful blacks have little or nothing to do with the underclass blacks, they have given up on the underclass just like the rest of us have.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye, you are distorting the message of the black man, Eugene Roberts, you just quoted.

He also said this:
Quote:
The violent crime that remains has largely been corralled into the impoverished neighborhoods where both perpetrators and victims live. Governments, nonprofits, churches and other institutions do what they can, but their efforts do not begin to approach the scale of the problem. What's needed is massive intervention on every front. It would be a great accomplishment, for example, to really fix the schools. But what good are state-of-the-art facilities and qualified, motivated teachers when the students arrive having been damaged by dysfunctional families and a toxic peer-group culture -- and when there are no jobs waiting for them when they leave?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/05/AR2010040503548.html?hpid=opinionsbox1


Notice, he says what's needed is, "is massive intervention on every front."

Roberts does, in fact, understand the problem, and it's scope. Hawkeye, you really don't, you're just sick of hearing about it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:42 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Notice, he says what's needed is, "is massive intervention on every front."
Ya, I saw that. We tried that, and we have a whole lot of other problems to deal with now so we are not willing to throw good money after bad. The blacks are going to have to do it without huge handouts now, they had the chance to have the rest of us bankroll their self improvement project and they blew it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 12:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
Robinson has lived his whole life during a time where playing on white guilt was almost always good for a large payment of cash. Those days are over, our entire society is in trouble now....playing the victim will not work now. Help yourself and help others, or get the **** out of the way, that is the new command to would be victims.
0 Replies
 
 

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