Do you know how to handle bullying?

@sozobe,

Quote:

Anyway, if kids have too much supervision early on then they don't learn enough kid-code stuff to protect themselves when supervision is no longer happening.

excellent point, and this problem of overly structured overly supervised childhood is epidemic in middle class America. The poor and the rich have it somewhat better.

0 Replies

I only had to deal with this once. When we moved to Chicago, my father was there first, renting a house, showing up at his new job. My mother and I arrived in a blizzard, very dramatic. My father told me about a very nice girl up the street, initials C.T. The initials amuse me now...

I had just turned nine and within a day or two had met three families of kids across the street, including one with four girls. For some reason I was standing in the snow in the side yard of the 4 girls house by myself for a few minutes. Knowing that family over the years, hot chocolate was probably being brought out to the front porch..

Anyway, a girl I hadn't seen before came running at me and tackled me, covering/punching my face with snow. Yes, CT. All I remember was total shock - I was ignorant of aggression except maybe from watching cowboys on afternoon tv back in our new york apartment. I'm sure I didn't fight and think she just vaporized into space within seconds. I think I figured out sometime later that washing a person's face in snow is a time honored initiation ritual that I had no clue about. I don't think I ever saw her again, though she lived about eight houses past ours. Or maybe they sent her to detention camp.. I say figuratively. I don't hate her so much now that a half century has passed.

Years went by and I was part of the neighborhood girls' hopscotch, roly poly, red rover, baseball, basketball, skating, bicycles, jacks, croquet, canasta, setting up carnivals... not the only leader, but well involved. There weren't many boys - Nancy's brothers were much younger (she was oldest of fourteen), and Dickie was much older than we were. Marty never played with us. He became a priest, I think.

If I ever had anyone else bully me, I was too dense to get it or won out, in a couple of situations.

On the other hand, my ex husband told me he was a bully when he was a kid. I saw pictures, he was hefty at, say, eleven, in a pudge but also submerged muscular way and that coincided, far as I know, with the bully years. He lived in an increasingly tough neighborhood, which he later wrote plays about. I take it that what pulled him out of all that was one particular high school teacher that taught drama. He thinned out, started paying attention to real life as drama, and grew from there. Never anywhere near a bully to me or others.

So, the bully stuff can pass.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

GOOD, to hear it!
I didn 't think u had it in u.

David

0 Replies

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Yah, I tend to agree with Cyclo.

I was brought up in a household where I was taught that fighting was wrong, turn the other cheek, etc. etc. etc. At the risk of being called all sorts of names, I'm a-gonna say this -- that's just about the worst kind of nonsensical bullshit you can instill in any child. It's criminal to tell a mkid he shouldn't try to defend him/herself because it's somehow "wrong" or because you could get hurt if you fight.

After numerous experiences of being picked on by school bullies because they knew I probably wouldn't fight, I discovered something that's been useful to me the rest of my life -- if you stand up to a bully immediately and forcefully, he will always back right down. No exceptions. I've never seen it fail. Most of the time you won't even need to fight. The bully will avoid having to prove himself. The reason he's a bully is because he's scared to begin with and has to show off somehow.

Teach your kid(s) never to back down, in the schoolyard or in later life.

I 'm shocked! Gee, u guys r making me proud of u!
The REAL weapon is in your mind, which manifests its desires.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
Yah, I tend to agree with Cyclo.

I was brought up in a household where I was taught that fighting was wrong, turn the other cheek, etc. etc. etc. At the risk of being called all sorts of names, I'm a-gonna say this -- that's just about the worst kind of nonsensical bullshit you can instill in any child. It's criminal to tell a mkid he shouldn't try to defend him/herself because it's somehow "wrong" or because you could get hurt if you fight.

After numerous experiences of being picked on by school bullies because they knew I probably wouldn't fight, I discovered something that's been useful to me the rest of my life -- if you stand up to a bully immediately and forcefully, he will always back right down. No exceptions. I've never seen it fail. Most of the time you won't even need to fight. The bully will avoid having to prove himself. The reason he's a bully is because he's scared to begin with and has to show off somehow.

Teach your kid(s) never to back down, in the schoolyard or in later life.

I 'm shocked! Gee, u guys r making me proud of u!
The REAL weapon is in your mind, which manifests its desires.

David

None of this has anything to do with Guns at all, David. And real men don't need them to feel safe.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Teach your kid(s) never to back down, in the schoolyard or in later life.

I think that depends a little bit, though.

With boys, it tends to be more straightforward. A physical threat or an obvious taunt.

With girls, it's often this incremental thing that I think is better served by just backing off than by escalating. Baiting someone into responding is often the point, in fact. ("What, I was just kidding, geez you take everything so seriously...")

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
Yah, I tend to agree with Cyclo.

I was brought up in a household where I was taught that fighting was wrong, turn the other cheek, etc. etc. etc. At the risk of being called all sorts of names, I'm a-gonna say this -- that's just about the worst kind of nonsensical bullshit you can instill in any child. It's criminal to tell a mkid he shouldn't try to defend him/herself because it's somehow "wrong" or because you could get hurt if you fight.

After numerous experiences of being picked on by school bullies because they knew I probably wouldn't fight, I discovered something that's been useful to me the rest of my life -- if you stand up to a bully immediately and forcefully, he will always back right down. No exceptions. I've never seen it fail. Most of the time you won't even need to fight. The bully will avoid having to prove himself. The reason he's a bully is because he's scared to begin with and has to show off somehow.

Teach your kid(s) never to back down, in the schoolyard or in later life.

I 'm shocked! Gee, u guys r making me proud of u!
The REAL weapon is in your mind, which manifests its desires.

David

None of this has anything to do with Guns at all, David.
And real men don't need them to feel safe.

Cycloptichorn

Anyone with human DNA is a real man.
Bravery is another question.

I don 't need a spare tire in my trunk to feel safe from flats.
I need only forget to be prepared.
Indeed, I seldom think of flat tires until I get one.

YOUR definition of a "real man" is someone who is too stupid to recognize potential threats.

I don 't join u in your proud quest to be ill prepared.

David

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Like others have said; I'd teach my kid to fight back,
even if that included, like Cyclops demonstrated,
using weapons (legal one's to bring in school...
like a padlock in a long sock,

That 's the kind of weapon that u have to actually USE, to be effective.
That 's a mace. It has no in terrorem value. If u don 't actually wanna KILL him,
u gotta be careful, or u 'll be making excuses n explanations to a homicide detective.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

I don't know. If I were a bully and I was intent on going after a kid, an I saw him swinging that around. I may back down.

1 Reply

Such an interesting thread! Wow!

I just have a second and really just want to bookmark so I'll say....

Some kids don't "get" social cues. Mo is one such kid who doesn't understand social codes.

What I've always told him is "Put your hands in your pockets and walk away." I tell him this because if a kid notices that s/he's hit a sore spot then s/he'll dig in -- they've found your weakness.

Don't expose your weakness; walk away. Most likely they'll leave you alone if they don't get a reaction.

That said.... Mo is a big kid and he's powerful strong. In wrestling he was matched against kids twice his age. He could totally take them down. In pee-wee football he was a "double stripe" linebacker. He can do damage. What he lacks in finesse he makes up in size.

Which takes us to our second rule: Never throw the first punch but feel free to tear up the guy who did. So far, he hasn't had to.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I don't know. If I were a bully and I was intent on going after a kid,
an I saw him swinging that around. I may back down.

If u express it in speculative language, then logically no one can deny that.
Tho Andy and I almost never agree,
I must join in his observations qua the merit of forcefully standing up to bullies.

As I recall,
there was once that I just remembered
of a non-serious bullying kind of situation when we were 13.
We were waiting in a line at the back of our classroom.
This fellow, maybe 8" taller than I was, gently put his hands
in front of my shoudlers and pushed me back, while he said:
"don 't push me." No one had pushed him nor touched him;
he was fooling around (like a fool). I deemed it a stupid thing to do n said nothing.
He did it again; I said: "cut it out."
He did it again; I said: "cut it out."
He did it again; I said: "cut it OUT."
He did it again; I aggressively counter-attacked, shoving him back,
more violently than he had (he had been soft in pushing),
while I said: "if I wanna push u, I 'll damn well PUSH U."

As per Andy 's dictum, he backed down,
saying "all right, all right, all right." That was the end of that.

David

0 Replies

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Such an interesting thread! Wow!

I just have a second and really just want to bookmark so I'll say....

Some kids don't "get" social cues. Mo is one such kid who doesn't understand social codes.

What I've always told him is "Put your hands in your pockets and walk away."
I tell him this because if a kid notices that s/he's hit a sore spot then s/he'll dig in -- they've found your weakness.

Don't expose your weakness; walk away. Most likely they'll leave you alone if they don't get a reaction.

Yeah; maybe laff. Show that u don 't take them seriously.

boomerang wrote:

That said.... Mo is a big kid and he's powerful strong.

Speaks well for how u feed him.

boomerang wrote:

In wrestling he was matched against kids twice his age. He could totally take them down.
In pee-wee football he was a "double stripe" linebacker. He can do damage.
What he lacks in finesse he makes up in size.

Which takes us to our second rule:
Never throw the first punch but feel free to tear up the guy who did. So far, he hasn't had to.

Well said, Boomer!

David

0 Replies

Quote:

None of this has anything to do with Guns at all

I disagree, and the rise in school shootings would bear me out I think.
However i will say that kids who are bullied and have reacted violently have mostly suffered for years.

Being able to deal with incidents of bullying in the short term is a key factor.

1 Reply

@dadpad,

dadpad wrote:

Quote:
None of this has anything to do with Guns at all

I disagree, and the rise in school shootings would bear me out I think.
However i will say that kids who are bullied and have reacted violently have mostly suffered for years.

We have not had any school shootings for a while
(except maybe on the rifle teams), so that shows a 100% DECLINE in school shootings.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

My big brother toughened me up- before I even got to school age. I'd had the facewash in the snow bit, the dunking in the pool bit...he didn't pull any punches with any of us. I remember one time I told him to stop bossing me around because he wasn't my father (he was babysitting - I was about ten) and he said, 'You have a really big mouth when you're all the way over there - let's measure it and see exactly how big it is'....and he held me down and counted how many marshmallows he could fit in my mouth at one time.
My mom didn't believe me when I told her what he did. I'll never forget - she said, 'Your brother LOVES you - he would never do something like that.'

Anyway - he was a good guy in general and did me a big favor because no one ever tried to bully me at school except for one time when I was about fourteen- I was in junior high school and small for my age and this big, athletic girl - not fat but one of those tall big-boned strong types who played softball and could hit the ball over the fence got mad at me for some reason and she literally picked me up by my shirt front and slammed me against the lockers and held me there, and I was so shocked I started laughing (which is what I always do when nervous) and said, 'What're you gonna do now Colleen? Hit me?' I felt like saying, (like I care) and she started laughing because I was laughing and she just let me drop and said, 'You're tougher than you look.'

My son is big and tough looking so nobody has ever tried to bully him (I asked him last night). My daughter however is petite and very soft-voiced and cooperative, gentle. I asked her if she'd ever been bullied and she said, 'Yep - but I just laughed and made them look like the fool,' and they stopped. And I said, 'Yeah - but they made you decide to give up your hearing aids.' And she said 'Yep - but now I can't hear them when they make fun of me- I don't even have to say, 'Shut the **** up' anymore....(I told her she had my permission to say that to anyone who ever made fun of her for wearing hearing aids again)- in other words she has them literally and permanently on ignore.

But I think any strategies depend on the child, situation and bullying technique. I don't think there are any hard and fast rules that fit any and every scenario.

1 Reply

@sozobe,

I was pondering on what some you have said " in regards to fighting back and standing up for a bully. Some part of it seemed right and another part seemed not completely right. I think it is fine with “normal” bullying. A kid in your class pushes you, teases you " you step up and smack him " it over.

But there seems to be more and more vicious intense bullying going on. I think sozobe might have struck part of it " small groups where kids have no where else to go. Or much older children " try to fight and the kid would likely be seriously injured. You have other more intense cruelty " pictures on the internet, all sorts of mean words that go beyond normal teasing to the point where no on plays or has contact with the child so they do not become the victim too.

Some of these behaviors adults are protected against. Most workplaces have policies against harassment, but yet we do not have these same policies for children " that are even less able to mentally handle this.

I wonder more about these “intense bullies” and victims.

1 Reply

@NickFun,

Funny Nick, well not haha funny " just that I was reading something along those lines. There were suggestions on being an anti-bully (not called that but that is a great word for it).

And “patting myself on the back” I didn’t realized that I have been doing this with my children. I’ve always told them that they do not need to be close friends with all their classmates, but they need to be kind and nice to each of them. This particular article states to teach your children empathy for others " to have them be respectful of all children whether they are friends with them or not. And to display this in your own behavior " for example don’t ream the clerk if she makes a mistake " show respect and understanding.

My daughters have told me from time to time when a particular child will get teased (usually for no more reason than they look different or funny) " you know the fat kid, the geeky awkward kid, skin color. My older daughter (maybe because of the small thing she went through) would tell me, I am nice to them " meaning the teased child. Or if the teased child says no one likes me, my daughter always say I do and stands up for them. She has even said how she went up to one mean boy in her class to not tease one of the 1st graders. I always praise her when she does this.

0 Replies

@Linkat,

Coincidentally, today there is a slate article on bullying and what to do about it -

http://www.slate.com/id/2249424/pagenum/all/

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

did you notice the trick.....they say that standing up to the bully will not work, but then claim as the reason that the abuser has picked a victim ie someone who will not stand up for themselves. So why cant we encourage the victim to stop being a victim? Why, because we will put too much pressure on them of course .

this whole slate thing is more victim culture, protect the victims they say, but do nothing to reform the victims. KIds dont have a lot a Patience for this BS, whining to the school adults about being picked on is a good way to get ones ass kicked, we should not be leading victims down the primrose path.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

Thanks - that is full of great information - and proves what many are suggesting really doesn't work....I think that is the feeling where it didn't sit right with me...as bullying, real bullying is much deeper...

I do think this rings well and we should encourage our children...

These peers intervene only about 10 percent to 20 percent of the time, but when they do, they can stop bullying. Even when the child who steps in is considered weak in the group's hierarchy of power, the bullying stops within 10 seconds in more than half the instances of intervention by peers. The extensive body of research on bullying has led to a new appreciation of the power of bystanders to enable or disable bullying.

0 Replies

Do you know how to handle bullying?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know