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EDITORIAL: Packing a gun in Starbucks

 
 
Seed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 05:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
There was a time (Colonial America) when gentlemen customarily wore their swords; anyone who was anyone
went to the Governor 's mansion to pay his respects on the King 's Birthday.
It woud have been unthinkable to arrive without his best sword strapped on.
This is represented in the works of Shakespeare qua the contempory English experience.

As we know, machettes are work tools; a bit awkward,
but I 'd compare it to a workman wearing his toolbelt.
I am a libertarian & an Individualist hedonist.


David, that was socially acceptable during that time frame. Today is a different social scope. It is something that isn't acceptable right now. In Colonial America they wore powdered wigs. We don't do that any more. (Not that it's anything remotely the same as gun control). I'm just saying that just because something was common place at one time, doesn't mean that it will find that same foot hold in today's society.

I guess that is why there are people like you. Those who push to change things. I am not saying that is bad. It's a good thing. But there are also people who try to change things but take it to a level that can be unhealthy. Take things a bit far. Become obsessive about it. You are looking at that line and it seems like you are toying with the idea of jumping over it and just swimming in the pool of obsessiveness.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:22 pm
@Seed,
David wrote:
There was a time (Colonial America) when gentlemen customarily wore their swords; anyone who was anyone
went to the Governor 's mansion to pay his respects on the King 's Birthday.
It woud have been unthinkable to arrive without his best sword strapped on.
This is represented in the works of Shakespeare qua the contempory English experience.

As we know, machettes are work tools; a bit awkward,
but I 'd compare it to a workman wearing his toolbelt.
I am a libertarian & an Individualist hedonist.


Seed wrote:
David, that was socially acceptable during that time frame. Today is a different social scope. It is something that isn't acceptable right now. In Colonial America they wore powdered wigs. We don't do that any more. (Not that it's anything remotely the same as gun control). I'm just saying that just because something was common place at one time, doesn't mean that it will find that same foot hold in today's society.
Pistols n revolvers are more convenient and less obtrusive than swords.




Seed wrote:
I guess that is why there are people like you. Those who push to change things.
I am not saying that is bad. It's a good thing. But there are also people who try
to change things but take it to a level that can be unhealthy. Take things a bit far.
I wish to restore the freedom that existed in America
before the (relatively) recent concept of gun control.





Seed wrote:
Become obsessive about it. You are looking at that line and it seems
like you are toying with the idea of jumping over it and just swimming in the pool of obsessiveness.
I don 't have rituals, but I do have a mild touch of OCD.
Fortunately for me, the USSC tends to agree with me as to our constitutional rights,
tho perhaps not as puristically as I 'd like.





David
Seed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:33 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Pistols n revolvers are more convenient and less obtrusive than swords.


True David. But I can't kill you from 50 feet with a sword, without throwing it. Also swords were more ceremonial, hence why they were all the rage at parties. It was a fashion piece. Even when the calvary commanders wore them, they were only used as a last resort.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:43 pm
@Seed,
Seed wrote:
Quote:
Pistols n revolvers are more convenient and less obtrusive than swords.


True David. But I can't kill you from 50 feet with a sword, without throwing it. Also swords were more ceremonial, hence why they were all the rage at parties. It was a fashion piece. Even when the calvary commanders wore them, they were only used as a last resort.
True. I believe that an armed society is a POLITE society.
Seed
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:51 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
True. I believe that an armed society is a POLITE society


Polite only because of fear.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:55 pm
@Seed,
Seed wrote:
Quote:
True. I believe that an armed society is a POLITE society


Polite only because of fear.
Not intense, conscious fear; not a state of alarm.
When I have been surrounded by armed men,
I did not feel in danger. No one looked scared. Agree?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 06:59 pm
David says "I believe an armed society is a POLITE society" You mean like Afghanistan, David? Or Somalia? Or for that matter gang society, where you dis someone and you get dropped wet? Or American society, where you cut someone off in traffic and bullet holes start appearing in your windows? You may call them POLITE, but they don't fit my definition of the term.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2010 07:33 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
David says "I believe an armed society is a POLITE society" You mean like Afghanistan, David? Or Somalia? Or for that matter gang society, where you dis someone and you get dropped wet? Or American society, where you cut someone off in traffic and bullet holes start appearing in your windows? You may call them POLITE, but they don't fit my definition of the term.
If I had not been armed when a bullethole appeared in MY driver's side window, I might have been in trouble.
I believe that in an emergency,
it is BETTER if u can CONTROL that emergency than if u can 't.

I mention SOCIETY,
and u bring up a WAR; not exactly the same.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:00 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I supposed I should have asked a more specific question.

Please show me any statistics you may have that show states with concealed carry laws have higher violent crime compared to states w/o concealed carry laws. That'd be much more relevant to the discussion on whether concealed carry laws help or hurt (although, not provable either way unfortunately).

So.. if you saw those statistics, it means you wouldn't accept them?

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/tables/10s0297.pdf

Several conceal/carry states have quite high violent crime rates.

If we remove DC because it is a city you will find that the highest violent crime rates are states that have conceal/carry. Louisiana, Nevada, S Carolina, Tennessee.

It kind of makes you wonder when Texas violent crime rate is 25% higher than NY's.
plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:37 am
@maporsche,
As a teacher who teaches developmental English, I have no idea what you wrote.

Let me break it down to one topic and one topic only: that there is some sort of generalized threat. . . that my safety is imperiled each time I leave my home. That seems to be what you and David are arguing: that the world is indeed a jungle.

Well, it is not.

I was once a social worker in the city of Detroit. I was never afraid although I did carry the state issued navy blue brief case that identified me.

As a young woman, I lived in the inner city of Detroit along with hundreds of educated Black and White people who were determined to turn the city around. So, we failed, but, we tried.

When I lived in ex-urban MA, I would take my kids into Boston frequently to the horror of my next door neighbor who just felt I was running some sort of risk. Paranoia like that is its own reward. And, if your personal solution to your paranoia is to carry a gun, then you are only providing a means of:

1.) escalating a problem that may exist;
2.) possibly creating a problem.

When I lived in suburban Boston, I went to the local Starbucks as it afforded me an opportunity to meet new people. Let's face it: people do not approach you in a restaurant if you are eating a sandwich at a table. They will sit with you in a place like Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts because those are social places.

Now, I eschew Starbucks in favor of two independently owned cafes. I will not support a national chain if I don't have to. Guess what? I meet people!

It would be difficult for me to conceal a weapon as a woman, although I wear a blazer to work most of the time. Can you imagine the search I would have to go through were I to put a gun in my purse! Jeez louise! It is difficult enough to find my cell phone before it stops ringing.

I have to ask both David and Maporsche: do you frequent cafes for coffee? Do you talk to people or is your fear so intense that you are prevented from having a conversation?

0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:39 am
@maporsche,
I would say that your paranoia is as plain as the words on the screen. Is describing someone as paranoid worse than describing . . . if you want to be technical . . . asking, which in this case meant there was no other answer . . . someone as ignorant?
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:40 am
@maporsche,
The use of the acronym ROTFLMAO automatically signals badinage.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I can't see that you favor anyone's individualism but your own. If you did, you wouldn't be as persistent as you are. Furthermore, your posts all indicate that there is one definition of freedom, your own.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 08:44 am
@ehBeth,
Thanks!
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:04 am
@plainoldme,
You started with laughing at me (which is not an appropriate response to what I wrote). You then called me paranoid (which I'm not, I don't even carry a weapon). Then a coward. You then proceeded to compare me to what I assume is a mentally retarded individual (or someone with schnizophenia).

If you don't consider that insulting, rude, uncalled for, unwarrented, un-provoked, etc then I really don't know what else to say. You win, I suppose.


You continue to call me paranoid, even though I provided an example that I hoped would clarify my position (the healthcare and shattered femur example). I guess I am not talented enough to communicate my position to you (or you're not willing to try to understand it).
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:06 am
@parados,
If there was conclusive data, I'd listen to it, of course.

I've never seen conclusive data. For every city/state you can show with high crime and concealed carry I can cite one that doesn't. Concealed carry is not the X factor here.

In a subsequent post I clarified that I will not do a statistical back and forth on this thead (if you'd like to start one, or grab one of the dozens on this site, by all means do so).
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:18 am
@maporsche,
If there was the conclusive statistical data; then why would you suppose Sheriff's offices across the country ignore it? Why do states ignore it? Hell, even the Illinois Sheriff supports it. Illinois, you know the least gun-friendly state in the country.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:24 am
@maporsche,
I should have stated that you described me as being cowardly. You know, more afraid than a 5'3" woman, won't even go into a mall/stores w/o a gun.

You didn't directly call me a coward (although, I suspect you think concealed-carry gun owners are).


To be fair; maybe that's not what you intended to say, but it is how it appears. Maybe you could clarify.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 09:28 am
@OmSigDAVID,
No, David, Monterey JAck did not twist what you said. You proved over and over that most on the right have no sense of history.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 10:13 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
No, David, Monterey JAck did not twist what you said.
You proved over and over that most on the right have no sense of history.
Plain, if u cite a historical fact, or series thereof,
I will consider the merit of what u say,
but as for asserting general opinions:
u have no credibility because of your intense leftist partisanship.
 

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