EDITORIAL: Packing a gun in Starbucks

@OmSigDAVID,

Ah, but, you did. Reread your responses, including the one in which you called me a jerk, as well as the one in which you both gave license to some forms of pollution and slavery.

I thought I might not go into the latter and I will not at this point. I am taking some time to visit my grand daughters.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

But, David, you never accept anyone's reasoning although you never specifically address why.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Oh, gunga, silly again.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

parados wrote:
Huh.. talk about a complete bastardization of what Jefferson actually said.
It appears you aren't a conservative David with the way you just
cheated in describing Jefferson's letter to his nephew.

David replied:
I don 't accept your reasoning; your allegation is devoid of merit.
U just don 't like what he said.

--------------

Sorry, David, but you can not deduce that parados does not like what Jefferson said. As the robotic voice of the 1960s would say: it does not compute.

1 Reply

I don't know how many of you read Jefferson's letter but it is a hoot! Let's put it in context: here is man who gave signs of recognizing the evils of slavery and wrote that the nation will have to face the consequences of slavery and yet owned slaves.

After the death of his wife Martha, Jefferson took as his mistress her halfsister Sally Hemmings. The women had a common father but Sally's mother was slave to Jefferson's father-in-law.

While it is possible that the two women resembled each other both physically and intellectually, having sex with one's sister-in-law is a tad repellent.

Anyway, in his letter to his nephew . . . who seems a lazy teenager or wastrel 20-something . . . Jefferson advises AGAINST playing games involving balls.

Why? They are far and away too violent.

Funny. I would not have thought hockey was invented then and it is played with a puck.

As for using the gun as exercise, anyone see the remake of Last of the Mohicans, starring Daniel Day Lewis. Avoiding the politics of that novel, let's concentrate on Daniel the method actor. He lived with the gun that the was the symbol of his character for the entire shooting and ran with it. The gun weighed 30 pounds.

So, perhaps, the gun wasn't to accompany young Peter for protection or target practice but was the Colonial version of "heavy hands" or small weights used while jogging!

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Guns of the colonial era often weighed ten or twelve pounds but not 30, nobody could carry that.

Ball games going into 1900 were often very rough. American football was nearly outlawed at the turn of the 1900s, people were getting killed. Injuries were cut in half or more than in half when the flying wedge was banned and again when the forward pass was legalized and again when modern helmets and face shields came in. Prior to that football players' faces all looked like somebody had gone over them with roter tillers.

1 Reply

@parados,

David wrote:

I don 't accept your reasoning; your allegation is devoid of merit.
U just don 't like what he said.

parados wrote:

No, actually, I pointed out what he said has NO RELATION to what YOU said.

U look thru jaundiced eyes; I will not join in your hallucination.

parados wrote:

There is nothing in the letter about using a gun in self defense.

THAT is what guns are FOR;
THAT is their natural use and meaning; thay are safety equipment.
If not that, then WHAT?? Y did Jefferson counsel a GUN, not a cup of tea, or a glass of warm milk ??
Explain, please, Parados?? I wanna hear this!

parados wrote:

Jefferson advises walking 2 hours in the afternoon as a break from studies

So, according to U, it is impossible to walk for 2 hours without taking a gun??? Your interpretation is crazy, parados.
Do U carry a gun for mental serenity because of the safety it offers? I do.

parados wrote:

and taking a gun as a means to relax

That makes no sense; how can it bring on relaxation, except only the way that I 've used it since age 8,
to relax my mind qua security against violent depredation??

parados wrote:

and observe what is around him.

So u r telling us that Jefferson believed that a gun supports your powers of observation ?
Does he recommend that it have a telescopic sight for this ?
Your interpretation is facially ridiculous, parados,
as if to say that a knife is for something other than cutting and food is for something other than eating.
No matter how much u wanna, u will never be able to beat this square peg into that round hole.

Jefferson wrote:

Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Never think of taking a book with you.
The object of walking is to relax the mind.

The gun can add to his personal safety, and therefore, to his peace of mind.
That is the reason that anyone carries a gun. Guns are EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT.

parados wrote:

Your attempt to use Jefferson's letter in the way you did is a lie, plain and simple David.

Nonsense. One thing I hear over and over to no end from the left
is that guns have but one purpose only and that is to kill.
Jefferson was not ignorant of that before he gave his advice.
It is obvious that he wanted his nephew to be safe while walking.
That 's Y anyone carries a gun, for safety,
the same as one uses a lifepreserver in water. If u claim that
there is another reason, another use, then please tell us what it is,
then maybe I 'll try that with MY guns.

2 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Jefferson lived in a place where European stock was still making inroads,
much to the consternation of the aboriginal population and where bears and panthers roamed freely.

Yes, for that reason, in some parts of early America,
it was against the law to go to church or to work unarmed; irresponsibly dangerous, like drunken driving.

plainoldme wrote:

However, I live in a place where encounters with bears are commonplace. I carry no gun.

Good luck!

2 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Ah, but, you did.

Did what ??

plainoldme wrote:

Reread your responses, including the one in which you called me a jerk,

I did not call u a jerk. I indicated that I thought that u were a jerk until I found out that u were a woman;
i.e., I corrected my error of understanding, reversing the impression that u were a jerk.

Incidentally, my opinion of u has elevated, based on your more recent posts.

Quote:

as well as the one in which you both gave license to some forms of pollution

I am not a King with power to give license.
I acknowledged that I saw old debris on their land
and I acknowledged that thay were within their rights to keep it there.
It is THEIR property, real and chattel.

plainoldme wrote:

and slavery.

Yes; in prisons.

plainoldme wrote:

I thought I might not go into the latter and I will not at this point.
I am taking some time to visit my grand daughters.

Sounds good; have a nice time.

David

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

But, David, you never accept anyone's reasoning although you never specifically address why.

That statement is untrue, in both of its allegations.

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

parados wrote:
Huh.. talk about a complete bastardization of what Jefferson actually said.
It appears you aren't a conservative David with the way you just
cheated in describing Jefferson's letter to his nephew.

David replied:
I don 't accept your reasoning; your allegation is devoid of merit.
U just don 't like what he said.

--------------

Sorry, David, but you can not deduce that parados does not like what Jefferson said. As the robotic voice of the 1960s would say: it does not compute.

I CAN deduce it and I DID deduce it, contrary to your opinion in the matter.

David

0 Replies

@gungasnake,

Jefferson wasn't around in 1900. I don't believe that football was played during the Revolutionary War.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Stop losing your cool at parados and reread (or is that read . . . did you get the passage from a book or website of quotes?) what Jefferson wrote.

You screamed this at parados:

THAT is what guns are FOR;
THAT is their natural use and meaning; thay are safety equipment.
If not that, then WHAT?? Y did Jefferson counsel a GUN, not a cup of tea, or a glass of warm milk ??
Explain, please, Parados?? I wanna hear this!

----------------

Jefferson advised the gun for relaxation rather than a book. Calm down and drink some ice water before you burst a blood vessel.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

So, when I wrote that I carry no gun, despite the presence of bears, David answered good luck!

Well, David, soon a large and ugly international corporation . . . known in America as Stop and SHop . . . will build an ugly and unneeded and unwanted store very near me, cutting off one of the paths that bears travel along.

But, I would guess that you both hate and fear nature.

Poor bears.

BTW, why haven't you responded to my dated observations of your earlier negativity toward me? At least, you have stopped complimenting me on my civility.

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Jefferson wasn't around in 1900. I don't believe that football was played during the Revolutionary War.

I think thay had balls and played games with them.

0 Replies

@plainoldme,

plainoldme wrote:

Stop losing your cool at parados and reread (or is that read . . . did you get the passage from a book or website of quotes?) what Jefferson wrote.

You screamed this at parados:

THAT is what guns are FOR;
THAT is their natural use and meaning; thay are safety equipment.
If not that, then WHAT?? Y did Jefferson counsel a GUN, not a cup of tea, or a glass of warm milk ??
Explain, please, Parados?? I wanna hear this!

----------------

Jefferson advised the gun for relaxation rather than a book.

I did NOT scream. I emfasized.
We r not limited to a monotone; emfasis is OK.
I re-iterate: relaxation comes from the security of a gun.
(I know this from personal experience, b4 I got my first gun.
At age 8, I was home alone [in a beautiful, crime-free naborhood] a lot
and I felt mildly uneasy qua how I 'd defend the place, if I ever had to; I never did.
Upon acquisition of a small framed .38 revolver, serenity imbued my mind, ever after [until I upgraded].)

Sometimes, it also comes from the beauty of a gun.
Not all guns r beautiful, e.g. the English Webley is gawky.

If U know, Plain, of another way that a gun provides relaxation,
will u be good enuf to reveal it ??

If U have specific answers to the questions
that I addressed to parados, I 'll be very i nterested to know your opinions on those specific points.

plainoldme wrote:

Calm down and drink some ice water before you burst a blood vessel.

I am already calm except mildly irritated by the aftereffects of a cold.

My physician already told me to drink plenty of water and I DO it.

1 Reply

You have to assume that ball games of Jefferson's day were at least as rough as football circa 1900 and that that had something to do with the advice to the relative.

As for living around bears without firearms, my best advice would be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIGEWFxhgGQ

The part you want for the bear occurs around 4/5's of the way through the video. Duran's normal three-punch combination would be a jab followed almost instantly by an overhand right and then a left hook either to the liver or to the head; in this case he threw the jab and then what looked like a feint with the right i.e. a punch which hadn't really been thrown and which Leonard ducked and, as Leonard tried to untangle himself and get back into boxing position he got clocked with the other two punches.

If you were very lucky and were to practice really diligently, that might work on a black bear. A grizzly, I don't know. I can picture a grizzly letting you live out of a sense of sportsmanship just for trying it, but I wouldn't bet money on it.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

David wrote:
I don 't accept your reasoning; your allegation is devoid of merit.
U just don 't like what he said.
parados wrote:
No, actually, I pointed out what he said has NO RELATION to what YOU said.
U look thru jaundiced eyes; I will not join in your hallucination.

It's you that looks through jaundiced eyes. Jefferson says nothing about self defense. That is something you made up out of whole cloth.

Quote:

parados wrote:
There is nothing in the letter about using a gun in self defense.
THAT is what guns are FOR;
THAT is their natural use and meaning; thay are safety equipment.
If not that, then WHAT?? Y did Jefferson counsel a GUN, not a cup of tea, or a glass of warm milk ??
Explain, please, Parados?? I wanna hear this!

Guns are used for hunting. It is this that Jefferson suggests his nephew do as an exercise.

Jefferson wrote:

As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind.

I think most people including Jefferson's nephew would think Jefferson is suggesting he use the gun to hunt.

Quote:

parados wrote:
Jefferson advises walking 2 hours in the afternoon as a break from studies
So, according to U, it is impossible to walk for 2 hours without taking a gun??? Your interpretation is crazy, parados.
Do U carry a gun for mental serenity because of the safety it offers? I do.

Where did I say he couldn't carry a gun? Walking is the exercise that Jefferson is suggesting in conjunction with hunting. He no where suggests he needs the gun to defend himself.

Quote:

parados wrote:
and taking a gun as a means to relax
That makes no sense; how can it bring on relaxation, except only the way that I 've used it since age 8,
to relax my mind qua security against violent depredation??

Violent depredation? For f**** sake. If there was a threat of violent depredation why would Jefferson have suggested it as a form of exercise and to clear the mind unless you want to argue that carrying a gun leaves you with no mind, which in your case seems to be a valid argument.

Quote:

parados wrote:
and observe what is around him.
So u r telling us that Jefferson believed that a gun supports your powers of observation ?
Does he recommend that it have a telescopic sight for this ?
Your interpretation is facially ridiculous, parados,
as if to say that a knife is for something other than cutting and food is for something other than eating.
No matter how much u wanna, u will never be able to beat this square peg into that round hole.

I didn't "suggest" it. Jefferson SAID it.

Jefferson wrote:

The object of walking is to relax the mind. You should therefore not permit yourself even to think while you walk; but divert your attention by the objects surrounding you.

When hunting, you MUST observe what is around you.

Quote:

Jefferson wrote:
Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks. Never think of taking a book with you.
The object of walking is to relax the mind.
The gun can add to his personal safety, and therefore, to his peace of mind.
That is the reason that anyone carries a gun. Guns are EMERGENCY EQUIPMENT.

Jefferson says no such thing. You are putting words in his mouth that are not there. I doubt his nephew would have thought he meant your tortured meaning. No one other than a complete gun nut would possibly come up with that meaning in the letter.

Quote:

parados wrote:
Your attempt to use Jefferson's letter in the way you did is a lie, plain and simple David.

Nonsense. One thing I hear over and over to no end from the left
is that guns have but one purpose only and that is to kill.
Jefferson was not ignorant of that before he gave his advice.
It is obvious that he wanted his nephew to be safe while walking.
That 's Y anyone carries a gun, for safety,
the same as one uses a lifepreserver in water. If u claim that
there is another reason, another use, then please tell us what it is,
then maybe I 'll try that with MY guns.

Wow.. You certainly are blinded to meanings of words. Jefferson's letter has meaning that is pretty easy to see based on his words. Your tortured attempt to change that meaning only points to how much you are willing to lie to others as well as yourself.

Jefferson suggests the gun as exercise. That is pretty clear in meaning. Do you carry your gun for "exercise" when you carry it to "protect" yourself? Do you see self protection as nothing more than exercise? Jefferson suggestion of "the gun" as exercise is not a suggestion to carry it as self defense. It is a suggestion to carry it for hunting. A two hour hunt which requires walking and observing what is around you. There is no other possible meaning based on the the words used and the historical context of those words.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Yes, for that reason, in some parts of early America,
it was against the law to go to church or to work unarmed; irresponsibly dangerous, like drunken driving.

Really? Against the law?

Could you direct me to one of those laws?
I am curious how they were enacted in a time when government was supposed to stay out of your life and at a time when less than 50% of the population would have had guns.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I re-iterate: relaxation comes from the security of a gun.

That has to be the stupidest thing you have ever said David. Are you suggesting that people can't ever relax without a gun? You are showing signs of psychosis now.

Quote:

If U know, Plain, of another way that a gun provides relaxation,
will u be good enuf to reveal it ??

Skeet shooting, Rabbit hunting. squirrel hunting, dove hunting, target shooting, pheasant hunting, duck hunting, goose hunting, can plunking, gun twirling, civil war reenacting, .....

The list goes on and on David. But the ONLY way you can relax is to have a gun for self defense? I think you need some serious help in the area of mental health.

0 Replies

EDITORIAL: Packing a gun in Starbucks

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