Tween girls

I agree with JPB, it will continue like this for a while, as triangle friendships
are just difficult to handle. Either you find a fourth one to join the group, or sozlet will have to get a crash course in diplomacy.
Jane is going to be a sophomore in high school this year and she has had a BFF for several years now, they're really good friends, but the minute Jane gives some other friend more attention, all hell breaks loose, so Jane figured out for herself that it is not worth it and stays with that one BFF but they have boys in the group of friends and that works well. Her BFF doesn't mind the boys, she just doesn't want another girl in the equation.

I asked about multiple sections of each grade because K was in a nasty triangle in 3rd-6th grades but 4th grade was the worst for that triad (8th grade for a different threesome was even uglier). Anyway, in 4th grade the three girls were in two different sections. K and L had the same teacher, but BFF (S) was in a different section with a different teacher. K and S took the bus together, met up with L on the playground and then went to their respective classes when the bell rang. S didn't like it one little bit that K and L got to spend class time together so she was really aggressive about playground attention and after school time.

It was such an ordeal that the three of them were put in three different sections for 5th grade (along with all the rest of the triangles that had to be split up after that year).

Isn't it funny that girls have this problem?
I am not sure if they can have different sections in high school, but I think
this upcoming year BFF and Jane have no classes together, only at lunch break they'll meet up and I am really hoping that both girls have matured enough over the summer (wishful thinking on my part) that there is less
jealousy.

Funny my tween soon to be teen doesn't have this issue, but my younger 8 year old. I think it is their personalities. My younger one is more social and very much into the friends and drama part. My older one although is social - doesn't like the drama so tends to avoid girls that act that way.

She will talk about the drama at school and when there are the 3 way friendships that start to get crazy, she avoids it. She does have a 3 way friendship with a girl a couple of years older and a classmate so it has happened, my daughter ignores it. But this year with the older one going to high school and the classmate going to a different school the dynamics are changing. Be interesting this year as these are the two girls she was closest to and the boy she was closest to is also going to another school.

Sozlet generally eschews the drama but it seems to keep finding her!

C was the way out of the drama last year, and things were at a good balance for a while. Basically when Kay was confident that she had the premiere position and C was a supplementary friend, things were fine. But then as sozlet and C got closer -- and C started considering sozlet to be her best friend -- things have gotten complicated again.

JPB, yes, what you say is definitely part of it. Sozlet and Kay have no classtime together this year, while sozlet and C have almost the whole day together. So Kay wants lunches and recess time, while C just kind of continues to spend time with sozlet at all times.

There might be an element of "mom doesn't want kids to be friends" here too, not sure. Yesterday sozlet managed to get Kay alone (an undertaking, requiring some luck), and made plans for after school. Kay was happy to be asked and perked up quite a bit. All that remained was the formality (they thought, since Kay had nothing scheduled) of asking Kay's mom if it was OK after school. Kay's mom said no.

Something may have come up, but I think it's possible that Kay's mom is trying to get Kay to branch out and make more friends rather than being so dependent on sozlet. And if so I'd see her point -- I've known Kay for so long and she's been here so often that I have a quasi-maternal relationship with her, and I want her to be more self-confident too. (A repeating motif is that Kay will feel snubbed by sozlet when no snubbing is actually happening, and then Kay will stew and purposely snub sozlet, who is caught unawares.)

I don't think Kay's mom has anything against sozlet, just is maybe weary of the drama via Kay (I know Kay was upset and crying to her the other day about all of this), and might be trying to enforce some branching-out.

Anyway, I'm trying to stay out of this as much as possible. One thing I said to E.G. is that I have this see-problem-fix-problem syndrome -- I see that Kay is feeling sad and neglected and so I want sozlet to go make her feel better. But I think sozlet's instincts might be healthier -- she's happy to hang out with Kay but it's Kay's problem if she's misreading the situation and blaming sozlet for things sozlet isn't doing.

Had a realization after I typed the above -- some of my stress and need to vent (thank you for listening!) is about sozlet and seeing that she's having a hard time with this, but part of it is for Kay too! I've known her since she was five and she has her own toothbrush and cereal here she's over so much. And we bonded early because she was having major hearing problems and did a lot of lipreading and appreciated that I knew how to handle that. Mom + kid is a clearly-defined relationship, best friends is a clearly defined relationship, but mom-of-best-friend and kid is less clearly defined. I do care about her a lot though and hate to see her upset.

I can see that - I've been in that circumstance too - where you want to help. But yeah - usually kids seem to have a knack to work things out themselves.

I once read a book about parental rescuing. It was a real eye-opener for me that taught me to question myself before jumping in. It didn't completely alleviate my desire to rescue them from themselves, but I could at least stop and ask myself about the worst thing that could happen if I stayed out of it. In almost all cases, the worst thing that could happen isn't all that horrible.

Yeah.

In this case I think I've realized that I seem to be more concerned with rescuing Kay than sozlet really.

But still yeah. (I'm forever grateful to Naperville across-the-street neighbors, who taught me to let babysoz explore and climb and fall and that's OK. She does way better when she's allowed to explore and climb and fall... and then move on.)

....and right on schedule, the purposeful snub.

Sozlet: Do you want to come over today after school?

Kay: No, thanks.



I'd really guess that her mom said "no" yesterday and then gave her a talking-to once she got home. I'm staying out of it though.

Sozlet's actually doing OK with it, not happy mind you but OK with it.

Oy...that must be hard.

The standing back, I mean.

We're such complex social animals.

Good on you for standing back.

It IS hard!

I'm increasingly worried that their friendship is in jeopardy due to misunderstandings and amplifications (as in, Kay takes something wrong, her mom takes her account at face value and amplifies her concern, and things go from there), and I've mentally composed a few emails to Kay's mom. But I won't, I won't, I won't.

By the way because of eyewitness accounts (E.G.'s usually) and texting, I am not just relying on sozlet's account of the situation for my take on this. She's usually pretty factual about these things anyway. (Her account lines up with the empirical stuff.)

Pfff.

Won't go into the whole thing (it's not really resolved yet), but one realization I came to the other day: sozlet's a boy. She has a girl mode (she calls it sensitive mode) she can get into, but it's not her default mode. And her default mode is very male. That can be an advantage sometimes but sometimes it causes problems.

Kay: Hi!
Sozlet: Hi!
C: Hi sozlet!
Sozlet: Hi!
Kay: <looks sad>
Sozlet: <oblivious, keeps talking to C>
Kay: <slinks away>
Sozlet: <oblivious, keeps talking to C, eventually notices Kay is gone>
Kay: <sends sad looks from where she's slunk to>
Sozlet: <figures that if Kay wanted to talk to her, Kay would talk to her, so if she's walked off, she doesn't want to talk>
Kay: <increasingly annoyed that sozlet isn't doing anything about the distress she's broadcasting>

-later-

Sozlet: Hi Kay!
Kay: <silence, grumpiness>
Sozlet: What's wrong?
Kay: <silence, increased grumpiness>
C: Hi sozlet!
Sozlet: Hi C!
Kay: <slinks off, even grumpier and sadder>

Whereas this is how things are supposed to go in girl land:


Kay: Hi!
Sozlet: Hi!
C: Hi sozlet!
Sozlet: Hi!
Kay: <looks sad>
Sozlet: <noticing> Hey C, catch you later OK?
C: <looking from sozlet to Kay> Um, OK.
Sozlet: So what's up Kay?
Kay: <happier>

edit: and whereas this is how things are supposed to go in boy land:

Kay: Hi!
Sozlet: Hi!
C: Hi sozlet!
Sozlet: Hi!
Kay: <happily talks to both C and sozlet, because she's friends with both of them and who cares if sozlet isn't paying attention to her and only her?>

But assuming for a minute that she was disgruntled about something:

Sozlet: Hi Kay!
Kay: <punches sozlet in the arm>
Sozlet: What's that about?
Kay: You're a jerk.
Sozlet: Yep.

<run off and play basketball>

I'm with sozlet in boyland.

Me too most of the time, which is the problem. Sozlet has two daddies.

I think the "C" dynamic in girl land is a lot more complicated than, "Um, OK." I think, at this age, it becomes one of Kay slinking or C slinking because she's been usurped by Kay.

Or, is it a Kay issue? What would C be like if Sozlet and Kay were talking and Sozlet didn't notice C's arrival?

C is also in boyland. She'd come up and talk to them because she's friends with both of them and who cares if sozlet isn't paying attention to her and only her.

That's been a big part of the problem, C just coming over no matter what, and sozlet not adequately (in Kay's view) shooing her away.

But you're right, if they're all in girl land as in my example, then C would go ahead and have a snit about being shooed away.

It appears that the biggest obstacle right now is this: Sozlet isn't really getting a chance to talk to Kay at school, so she wants Kay to come over after school so they can finally talk. Kay is mad that sozlet isn't talking to her much at school, so she doesn't want to come over after school. (That much became apparent during a breakthrough conversation yesterday.) So sozlet's going to go ahead and try to redouble efforts to talk to Kay at school, and if Kay just gets over here after school things might get on a more even keel. Or not, we'll see.

Sozlet was OK with it for a while but it started to really bother her, and Kay is obviously sad and frustrated (just in general), so I'm hoping it'll work out.

What's bothering sozlet, specifically? Is she trying to be everything to everyone, or does she have some of her own feelings and wants/needs wrapped up in it?

K was the classic people pleaser and had a hell of a time with triangles in girl land.

That she's not currently in a comfortable friendship with Kay, and that Kay is so sad about this.

Sozlet and C are very good friends for sure, but they have a different kind of friendship. It's very intense -- sozlet is frequently tired out after spending time with C. They're both very smart -- another complication is that they will be together once a week in a very small [4 kids] gifted group, that Kay is not in -- and competitive, and challenge each other in mostly good ways.

Kay is the exhale friend, the recharge friend. They get each other in a very basic way, especially their senses of humor. They make each other laugh and laugh. They have long deep conversations. When Kay got seriously hurt, sozlet was the only person she would see besides her own family for a while.