JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 07:30 am
@sozobe,
Yeah, and unfortunately it will continue to escalate for a few more years before they settle down and let friends be friends. It's the beginning of a very tough and emotional stage in development.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 07:48 am
@JPB,
[unenthusiastic] yay [/unenthusiastic]

This has all been tremendously helpful though, thanks JPB and everyone. I didn't really expect it now. There have been rumbles of girl drama from day one but this is definitely a whole 'nother level.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 09:09 am
@sozobe,
I've been hesitant to post because my daughter is not yet to this stage and I've only seen it from watching my son maneuver around the periphery of girl battles, but I have to relate one story from a couple of years ago. My son was good friends with Girl A and Girl B who were BFF. He took Girl B to the 8th grade formal. Girl C enters the picture. GC is pampered, spoiled and her family is very well off. GB is also from a well off family, lives in the same enclave as GC but is much better grounded. I've known these children and their families for several years. GA and GB have a tiff over some trivial matter and GC strikes. She starts talking to GB telling her that GA was never really her friend and that GA has designs on my son even though GB went to the dance with him. She starts emailing and PMing GA telling her that she is a loser, not a real friend to GB and will be eaten alive in high school because she doesn't have any friends. She also starts pressuring my son to take sides which he refuses to do and instead tries to mend the friendship. Things continued to escalate until GB's mother discovered GC was modifying PM's on the computer to make it seem that GA had said derogatory things about GB. The friendship between GA and GB never recovered even though GC's duplicity was discovered and the cute little budding romance between my son and GB died. Eventually, GB dropped GC, but that took a fair amount of time. It was a real learning experience for me and made me glad that I check up on my son's email and PM usage.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 09:12 am
@engineer,
You will be well prepared when your daughter hits that age, engineer.
Yes, girls are definitely more conniving than boys, no question about it.

0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 09:14 am
@sozobe,
JPB is right, this is only the beginning, sozobe, and sometimes it can get to the
point where you want to march over to the girls house and pick up the battle where your daughter left off. It's hard, very hard at times.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:53 pm
@Seed,
You are definately correct the parents can be even worse with their kids and with the coaches. Some parents like to give "advice" on how to coach.

I am getting a small taste of what teachers must go through with these too involved and pushing parents. Fortunately for hubby all the parents (except one) has been very supportive and complementary. The one though is really really bad to deal with.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:55 pm
@tsarstepan,
My daughter started with dance when she was 4/5 - she quickly switched to team sports which seems to fit her more. I suggest trying a variety of items (not all at the same time), but as an introduction and as she has tried various ones - you will be able to see which she leans towards.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:52 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

JPB is right, this is only the beginning, sozobe, and sometimes it can get to the
point where you want to march over to the girls house and pick up the battle where your daughter left off. It's hard, very hard at times.


I actually did that once. Just once. I was friends with T's mom so I felt I could cross that line. It's another triangle story from 6th grade, I believe. K and T were very close friends. T and D were also friends. D and K weren't close but they weren't foes either. K and T were great when they were together, but T didn't treat K very well when D was around. One Saturday morning T and D were at D's house sending messages to K on Myspace. The messages were coming through from D but they were both there. They were getting meaner and meaner as the morning progressed. K had been battling her seasonal depression issues and wasn't in a very good frame of mind at the time. A message came through saying something like, "Why don't you do us all a favor and just kill yourself!"

I got on the phone.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 04:20 pm
@JPB,
Wow.

Some of this stuff is terrifying.

I can't imagine letting that go, either.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 04:55 pm
Meanwhile, another good day today.

At the beginning of this phase*, maybe a month ago, sozlet walked away from Esse when she started pulling her stuff. Then (~a week ago) Kay started joining her. Then (a day or two ago), M (not Em), a fourth member of their group last year who is in another class but who rejoins the group during lunch and recess, and who had been firmly on Esse's side when things were rough for sozlet earlier, joined sozlet and Kay. Esse would go to O and Em when abandoned (starting with when Kay would join sozlet).

Well, today all four of 'em (sozlet Kay M Esse) hung out with no drama at lunch and recess and actually enjoyed each other. That's pretty much the first time in months. Things could still (and probably will) go pear-shaped, but it's a nice development for now. They're a good group of kids when the drama llama is kept at bay.

I won't do a day-by-day update but wanted to convey this happy ending, even if it turns out to be temporary...


*Before that, sozlet was stuck in the Kay-Esse dynamic because she really valued Kay's friendship and thought she'd lose it if she just walked away, leaving Kay and Esse alone. Then she got tired of Kay's reluctance to stand up for her and resigned herself to losing both Kay's and Esse's friendship.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 05:04 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
They're different.
Different than what ?
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 05:05 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
aardvarks
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 06:34 pm
JPB, that's downright vicious and I would have intervened as well. Poor K,
they beat on her when she was down, that's more than nasty behavior.

sozobe, that's great that sozlet and the other girls have figured out a way
to bypass the drama - at least for now. It's reassuring to know that they can
get along well if they wish to do so.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 09:43 am
Timing is everything....I have a tween espisode last night. My tween says mommy I have to tell you something, but you must promise not to tell anyone even daddy ...I respond well it depends on what it is whether I tell daddy or not

Another classmate dared (that damn out dare thing) to kiss a boy. And she dared a different boy to kiss her. The kids blocked the viewing from the teacher during recess and this boy kissed her (she said he didn't actually touch her check, but pretended) check.

Yes I can see why she did not want to tell daddy (daddy would go crazy - even as innocent as it was). I did let her know that she should not do that again at school - it is not appropriate behavior for school.

Besides that it is cute and no I did not tell daddy. I want her to feel confident she can tell me anything.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:19 am
@Linkat,
That's actually kind of sweet. I especially appreciate the chivalrous boy who pretended to kiss her but didn't.

How old is she now?
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:28 am
@Linkat,
She will tell you anything, Linkat, if you continue being her confidante.
We (Jane and I) did talk about kissing boys when she was around 12 years old.

I told her of my first kiss and that I think back fondly of it, and since it is
something you'll remember for the rest of your life, I told her that she should
make sure, whomever she kisses for the first time, it should be special.

Jane is 14 years old, so naturally she did have her first kiss already, and not
too long ago she told me that she took my advice by heart and made sure
the boy was worth it. I was so glad that she did, and I am even more pleased
that she confided in me. I hope it stays this way!

0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:36 am
I think a bond of confidence between mother and daughter is a beautiful
thing. I'm sure there are many things Hermione told her mom that I never
heard.


Thank God.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:58 am
@sozobe,
She is 11. This boy is one of her closest friends - they have been classmates since kindergarten and share a love of basketball.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 10:59 am
@George,
Yep - I am sure that most dads really prefer not knowing.
0 Replies
 
Seed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2010 01:16 pm
Just read this article, though a bit off topic, it has to do with bullying. From some of the talk here it seems as if some of the girls in Sozlet's group, though not being a physical bully, may be doing a bit of mental/verbal abuse.

Quote:
Heidi's oldest child was just 15 months old when she started exhibiting aggressive behavior. She hit, she bit, she pulled other kids' hair -- and Heidi was at a loss as to how to cope.

"My daughter was mean," recalls the New Jersey mom of three.

And with that realization came with a flood of emotions -- confusion, embarrassment, and even shame.

"I was a teacher and a nanny before I had kids, so I thought I had it all figured out. I was ... embarrassed of my daughter, and I definitely felt shame. Here I was this teacher, this nanny with years of experience, and I couldn't even control my 15-month-old."

We hear so often about the victims of bullies, the kids who suffer at the hands of tiny tyrants or teen queens. The media covers the sensational cases, like that of Phoebe Prince, the 15-year-old South Hadley, Mass. student who took her own life after she was taunted mercilessly on Facebook.

But what about your average, garden-variety bully? And what about their parents? For Heidi, living with the knowledge that her child took pleasure in victimizing others was incredibly stressful.

"I felt judged, especially by people who didn't know me or my child," she says. "I left many places crying, for many months."

Those feelings were wholly appropriate, says speaker, author and filmmaker Stacey DeWitt. She is also the founder and chief executive officer of Connect With Kids, an organization that seeks to educate parents on issues like obesity, anorexia, body image, drug use -- and yes, bullying.

DeWill says that, unlike Heidi, many parents of bullies are reluctant to admit that their child has a problem.

"Initially, they don't want to hear it," DeWitt says. "They say, 'That can't possibly be my child!' or "People are overreacting.' But once you point out the pattern of behavior, they do eventually acknowledge that fact."

DeWitt says child-development research shows that bulling by very young children is, in fact, Darwinian.

"This is actually nothing new," she says. "In some ways, it is evolutionary to have this kind of aggressive behavior and it is not uncommon to see it in young children."

What has changed, she says, is that our current "culture of cruelty" rewards those whose bullying ways put them on top. No one remembers who came in fourth place at the Olympics -- everything in modern society is geared toward a cutthroat, competitive lifestyle. This obsession with winning can actually blind parents to the signs that their kid is bullying others.

"I think some parents are proud (of their bullies) and they don't even realize it," DeWitt says. "I don't think in most cases it is ill-intentioned, but I do believe that parents are so consumed with survival in the current, highly competitive socioeconomic market and with their kids being the best and coming out on top. The thing is, when you need to be the best, that means someone else needs to be on the bottom."

The blindness DeWitt points to does seem to exist. We posed the statement, "I feel some pride in my kid when they bully others" on an electronic message board, along with two possible responses: "Sure I do, it's a big bad world out there and someone has to be the winner!" and "Are you crazy? No way!"

While only six percent of parents agreed with the statement, the tone of the debate that ensued is a grownup version of playground fisticuffs.

"Any parent that is proud of this type of behavior needs to be pulled outside and have the [expletive] kicked out of him/her. Eventually their kid will be on the news because one of the kids that he/she bullies will bring a gun to school and blow their [expletive] head off," writes one mother.

While other posters adamantly deny that they would be proud of a bully, some of them are keen on meeting fist with fist.

One woman details an incident in which her child punches another child in the face, and she praises the girl for her actions: "We were at [a playground] several months back and some older boy was climbing all over her, not wanting to wait his turn to go down the slide (He was too big/old to be in the toddler area in the first place). She asked him twice to back off. He did not, she she reared back and punched him hard in the face. THAT, I was proud of."

DeWitt is unfazed by these kinds of reactions, and reminds us that parents are themselves subjected to this kind of "it's either me or you" mentality every day in the workplace. In fact, more and more mothers are finding themselves the victims of bullying -- from other moms.

"You have to remember how competitive the world is right now, and this is something that parents themselves are forced to maneuver through," she says. "We teach our kids that they need to be tough and competitive to look out for themselves. It's cultural."

She points to all aspects of modern life, including, of course, the media. Shows like "American Idol" thrive on the nasty remarks of the judges, and we consume them happily. However, DeWitt is one of the few to point the finger not at the producers of such entertainment, but at us, the consumers.

"It isn't that this kind of show would never have been made in the 1950s, it's that society would not have tolerated this kind of show in the 1950s," she says. "The media is just a mirror of who we are now."

What can parents do? Teach your kids empathy (which is not an innate skill) and role-play often when they appear to be developing the traits of a bully.

That's what Heidi tried to do with her daughter, who is now 8 years old and recently ran her very own fundraiser for the victims of the Haiti earthquake disaster. But the road to empathy and kindness was neither short nor smooth, she says.

"I knew in my mind that it was nothing we were doing to cause her to be a physical kid, who hit, and bit, and pulled hair," Heidi says. "We didn't teach her those things, so in my mind I knew it was just something to work through. But knowing that didn't make it any easier."

"I am proud to say, that now, at almost 9, she is a super great kid," she adds.

0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Tween girls
  3. » Page 4
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/23/2019 at 11:47:01