20
   

Are Republicans mean?

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 09:43 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

engineer wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

My basis is that people shouldn't have to forego medicine or go deeply into debt to get it.

That is the liberal argument for health care.

Since it is also my argument, perhaps you are laboring under a naive or self-serving definition of conservatives.

Or perhaps you are being left behind by conservatives like I was ten years ago. The conservative movement as it exists today does not believe as you do that people shouldn't have to forego medicine or go deeply into debt to get it. It doesn't really support Social Security or Medicare although it is willing to pay them lip service. Goldwater would recognize you as a fellow conservative, but Limbaugh would have his doubts.

I don't know what kinds of polls you've been taking, but most of the conservatives I know personally agree with me on this subject.
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 07:13 am
@Brandon9000,
But the party that represents conservatives does not. I don't know how you could argue with that statement. If you and those conservatives who agree with you were in charge eight years ago, you could have forged a healthcare program, but the "conservatives" who were in charge had other plans including giving out tax cuts even if that put the government back into a deficit spending situation and going to war in Iraq using money borrowed from China. They were talking about "privatizing" Social Security instead of making it more robust. I grew up a fiscal conservative, a social moderate/progressive and a Republican, but it became very apparent to me around ten years ago that the Republican Party had moved away (far away) from those roots. How does today's Republican Party reflect those values you listed above? To even say that Republicans in power today are morally consistent is laughable. If they ever expressed a position that Democrats might find common ground with, they are backpedaling hard to deny it.

Conservatives aren't mean, but Republicans in the House and Senate are being driven by something and it's not principles. "Mean" may be the most kind word.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Mar, 2010 09:03 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

But the party that represents conservatives does not....

I'll admit that we differ from the current Republican party position, but there are a lot of us. I agree with your statement, "To even say that Republicans in power today are morally consistent is laughable. " As for the other issues, I am not going to dilute this discussion with new subjects.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 09:58 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I think joefromchicago is right. This group is just a bunch of liars.

I didn't say they were liars. I suggested that they were all a bunch of hypocrites. There's a big difference. Liars tell lies to others. Hypocrites tell lies to themselves.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:16 am
@joefromchicago,
They did lie to me.

I voted for Obama in large part because I believed him over McCain regarding fiscal discipline. I, as a 28 year old individual at the time, am very worried about my financial future being severely handicapped because previous generations built themselves some gigantic payoffs for their latter years, and our politicians pander to the dying generation due to their numbers, and the apathy of the youth.

I am now under the belief that McCain would have done much more to protect my financial future than I've seen Obama doing, and Obama campaigned on a VERY different message.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:30 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

...and our politicians pander to the dying generation....

Every generation is the dying generation.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:30 am
@Brandon9000,
Well, the one's dying sooner.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:30 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

They did lie to me.

I voted for Obama in large part because I believed him over McCain regarding fiscal discipline. I, as a 28 year old individual at the time, am very worried about my financial future being severely handicapped because previous generations built themselves some gigantic payoffs for their latter years, and our politicians pander to the dying generation due to their numbers, and the apathy of the youth.

I am now under the belief that McCain would have done much more to protect my financial future than I've seen Obama doing, and Obama campaigned on a VERY different message.


pfff what would McCain have done any differently?

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:33 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I don't think he would have borrowed nearly as much money as Obama is doing.

I know you can rebut with "Bush did X, Y, Z". I don't think McCain would have spent nearly as much as Bush did or Obama is doing.

I also think that McCain would have spent less money on the stimulus, which I think would have been beneficial to the economy in 2010 and 2011 (probably not as much as 2009).


I notice that you don't argue that Obama campaigned on a different message or that he's putting our generation in a mess that we will likely never recover from. Only that you don't think McCain would have done any better, which is a valid opinion. But that doesn't excuse Obama.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Mar, 2010 10:36 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I don't think he would have borrowed nearly as much money as Obama is doing.

I know you can rebut with "Bush did X, Y, Z". I don't think McCain would have spent nearly as much as Bush did or Obama is doing.

I also think that McCain would have spent less money on the stimulus, which I think would have been beneficial to the economy in 2010 and 2011 (probably not as much as 2009).


I notice that you don't argue that Obama campaigned on a different message or that he's putting our generation in a mess that we will likely never recover from. Only that you don't think McCain would have done any better, which is a valid opinion. But that doesn't excuse Obama.


I mean, why do you think that? McCain never met a spending bill he didn't like. He voted for ALL of them under Bush. In his campaign, he campaigned on getting rid of earmarks - which amounts to about 16 billion dollars of the budget, big whoop. I think he would have done exactly what all modern Republicans do - spend a ton of time in his campaign talking about saving money, and then spend it profligately when he gets in office.

I think Obama, for 80% of his campaign, faced a certain economic situation; and then the market crashed hard in September 2008, and what is the guy supposed to do? Continue to focus on debt reduction during a recession? That makes no economic sense whatsoever and you'd be hard pressed to find an economist who doesn't think the Stim bill helped.

Other then the Stim bill, Obama's spending record ain't too shabby.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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