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Plane Crashes into Building in Austin, Texas

 
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:06 am
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

why is this not being called a terrorist attack?

I'm not sure this is a terrorist attack as opposed to just a homicidal attack. To me, for something to count as a terrorist attack, it must use violence or intimidation to promote a political position. This guy clearly had a political beef with the government, but there is no way his action would influence government policy and I doubt he believed it would. I think he just wanted to kill people and eliminate his biggest asset (house) so that no one could get it. I don't think it will reduce the huge portion of the US population that loves and supports the IRS. It might make IRS employees consider a new line of work, but if you work for the IRS, you already understand where you stand in people's affections.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:08 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
I don't think it will reduce the huge portion of the US population that loves and supports the IRS.


Somebody slap that boy . . .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:09 am
By the way, i think you're too quick to dismiss the political motive here. The bombing of the Federal building in Oklahoma City had no specific goal, but it was terrorism nonetheless.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:18 am
@Setanta,
Yes, I think it is a tough call. There is a clear political statement here, but in the OK bombing, McVeigh really believed that his actions would cause a popular uprising against the government. He thought his actions were the first salvos in a revolt. Perhaps this guy thought that his actions would stimulate political thought and change along the lines of "what would cause someone to do this?" He might have figured he could intimidate IRS officials who might be "harassing" hard working people like himself. If his message is that "Americans will kill you if you try to make them pay their taxes", then that qualifies as terrorism to me. If he is just a nutcase looking for revenge, then it's just a homicide/suicide.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  4  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:27 am
Well, let's see. Suppose by some odd twist of fate, Mr. Stack and his plane instead of smashing into the IRS building, hit a secret cushioning I-beam built into the place to prevent such attacks. The plane merely gets stuck in the side of the building like your shoe in muck on a Mid-March day. No flames, no crash, just thhhhuuucck.

The police arrive, use a crane to retrieve the apoplectic pilot and transport him to the local precinct where they are met by FBI officers.
Even given these facts:
that is this is occurring in Texas where the present governor of that State has openly called secession a "who knows what could happen" item
and that one of the other candidates for that office was heard recently musing over her unresolved questions regarding the possible involvement of the Federal Government in the events or 9/11,
still one would hope that the befuddled and frustrated Mr. Stack would be treated no differently than another person trying to use a plane to kill people.

I don't know. Being a nice white guy who has, or had, a nice house and has, or had, his own plane, maybe he'd be seen in a different light than the Christmas Day Fruit-of-the-Loom fellow? What'd think, would he get a pass from the FBI and Homeland Security on this?

Joe( and fined $300.00 for failure to yield to a building.)Nation
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:32 am
@Joe Nation,
Yes, I'm drifting back to the "terrorist" label. It's clearly anti-government. You're going to have to explain that "failure to yield to a building" tagline.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 09:53 am
@engineer,
Engineer: If they failed to prosecute him for terrorism, they might still feel compelled to charge him with something. Anything. 'Failure to yield to a building' was my lame attempt to fill that gap.

Joe(They would also give him a slap on his wrist along with a signed pardon from Governor Perry)Nation
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 12:25 pm
@shewolfnm,
Quote:
it alleviates ( to those who are gullible enough ) the idea that americans are terrorists too.


Yes, well, ahem, moving right along. How's about those New Orleans Patriots?
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 12:53 pm
Did they move the team from New England?

Joe(he, himself, who know nada about sports)Nation
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 12:59 pm
America has many two-tiered systems.

We like to think there are two kinds of terrorism: International (bad) and Domestic (Bad, but not so bad.)

It's rather like our view of murder: Get drunk and shoot a stranger with a gun= murder.
Get drunk and use a car to run some soul down on a street corner=
Vehicular homicide.

Yeah, like the car did it.

Joe(Bad Lexus, Bad! )Nation
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 01:07 pm
@Region Philbis,
Region Philbis wrote:


1:43 p.m. A federal law enforcement official confirmed Stack's name and said he owned a house that was burned Thursday. Asked whether Stack set the fire, the official replied, "It appears that way."

1:40 p.m. The official said the plane was a Piper and that officials believe Stack owned it. Initially there was confusion that the plane was stolen, but the official said that officials no longer believe that is true. Asked whether it was suicide, the official said "it looks like it."


Is that the official official version?
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 02:49 pm
@Mame,

not sure, i lost track of the developments...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/19/texas.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T2
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 04:05 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
It's rather like our view of murder: Get drunk and shoot a stranger with a gun= murder.
Get drunk and use a car to run some soul down on a street corner=
Vehicular homicide.

Yeah, like the car did it.

Joe(Bad Lexus, Bad! )Nation

Do you disagree with the concept of varying levels of criminal culpability depending upon the state of mind of the criminal, JN?

Tico(America invented many things, but manslaughter is not one of them)Maya
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 05:48 pm
Any really believable reason to feel certain this guy was a right-winger?

I mean, I have a hard time believing the IRS has never pissed any leftists off...
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 06:29 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Any really believable reason to feel certain this guy was a right-winger?


Nope, none at all. He showed compassionate.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 06:40 pm
I'm just having fun, Tico, and, btw, vehicular homicide speaks only to the particular device used in the crime, not the perpetrator's state of mind. Two drunks, both acting in reckless disregard for the safety of others, two different crimes. Hmmm.

And why is the car so special it gets it's own type of murder. Did the jerk (subject of this thread) commit Aeronautical Homicide?

If I kill you with a hammer in the Birmingham jail, what is that?

Joe(Hamma/slamma/bama-cide? No.)Nation
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 06:46 pm
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

shewolfnm wrote:
Oh yeah. thats right. because it was done by a white man. He was not Islamic, from another country, or of any other religious denomination that is not prevalent in america. There for its not terror..........

If he was a black or Hispanic, it would be labeled as terrorism?

I'm not ready to make that leap.


No.
Based on just race alone, I absolutely agree with you. I would not make that leap either.

Im saying if he was of another religion + a different skin color + foreign.. People would be quickly jumping on the terrorist band wagon.

Though I do believe that what he did was an act of terrorism. And I believe that people do not want to think that way about it because then they would have to think of americans as possible terrorists instead of the Islamic foreigner.
Sadly our society has pumped up the image of a terrorist as much as they have pumped up the "stranger" look for kids. As if they only have one face.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 07:07 pm
@shewolfnm,
Quote:
Im saying if he was of another religion + a different skin color + foreign.. People would be quickly jumping on the terrorist band wagon.


I think that you could even take out the "foreign" and the bandwagon's springs would bottom out pretty fast.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 08:09 pm
@shewolfnm,
I agree with you that it's terrorism of a sort. I think the reason the Obama administration said it wasn't terrorism (besides not wanting to use the word itself) is because this guy Stack wasn't looking to instill 'terror' within the populace, rather he was looking for revenge on just one group of many he felt had wronged him. He wanted to go out with a bang (unlike McVeigh who wanted to remain alive to continue his rampage of terror) so Stack committed suicide in the process.

He picked the IRS, but he also hated organized religion and could have chosen a church; he hated capitalism and could have chosen a bank or other large business. But once he offed himself, there's no reason to fear it will happen again -- unlike with the jihadists who are often quick to claim credit and threaten that more is coming (thereby terrorizing the populace).

When Hasan killed at Ft. Hood, I thought that was a form of terrorism also, but he's not been labeled a terrorist (he killed for political/religious reasons), and I think at least one group has claimed him as their own.

Anyway, JMHO.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Feb, 2010 08:10 pm
@Irishk,
This is all too tricky for me. I put these folks in the same slough of despond.
 

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