failures art
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:08 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
I never said virtue of a character must be rewarded. Often the best stories are the ones that end tragically because it conveys a stronger message.


So what's the message in Titantic? Apart from the one who sets the pace in set design. Of the story.

It's a metaphor about the disparity between the social classes and how we systemically protect the top and can't be bothered to provide the same lifeboats to the lower class. Additionally, the lifeboats the upper class use have plenty of room in them, they just don't want to share. Whether rich or poor, we are all human and deserving of an equal chance (the love story of the film). When Jack dies in the end, we should feel sad not only at his passing, but because of how close he came to transcending the niche society had carved for him and that he might have the happiness he deserved.

Did the message in Titanic really allude you? It think James Cameron was pretty damn transparent about what the movie is about.

A
R
T
failures art
 
  2  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:13 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Okay--we're in a pub and I'll pretend to be an atheist. Start a conversation about love.



Hi spendi, you're looking rather intelligent and liberated today.

Thank you Art, would you like to get a beer?

I'd LOVE one.

Cheers mate. *clank*

So now that you're an Atheist spendi, I think it's about time I share the location and security codes to the atheist missile base, then give you the secret briefing on the 2010 godless agenda.

A
R
T
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 03:33 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Did the message in Titanic really allude you?


It didn't elude me if that's what you mean. The lifeboat/class thing is nothing but historical reportage. It happened. It needs no metaphors. It happens now I should think. Not as blatently but it'll be there. In the health care business it's rife.

If the hero dies in any fiction it's the wages of sin. So what were Jack's sins? In Greek tragedy the hero can die by becoming enmeshed in grinding forces and ones that could happen to anyone. That's not our style. We are individualists.

Fate also is a character. Jack won the ticket in a card game. Why was he in the card game? He was trying to get back to his hometown in Wisconsin which he never should have left. He overestimated his talent as an artist and tried himself against the world thinking it would just roll over for him.

And he seduced a chaste American girl into posing unclothed. An unhappy girl who wouldn't accept her mother's rights to trade her honour to save the family finances. A suicidal girl. A damsel in distress.

There's the hubris/nemesis theme of the ship's owners and the rich passengers. And a fair bit of filler.

The great theme was--Boy--can we Yanks make movies eh?

PS--you should try not to talk down to people. It doesn't help your cause one little bit.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 05:21 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Hi spendi, you're looking rather intelligent and liberated today.


I would assume that is a piss-take. In order to respond I would need to know your gender, which I think is female, and how you are dressed. Am I commiserating with a victim of love or simply seeing how the land lies.

You need to set the scene.

failures art
 
  1  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 06:57 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

The lifeboat/class thing is nothing but historical reportage. It happened. It needs no metaphors. It happens now I should think. Not as blatently but it'll be there. In the health care business it's rife.

spendi - Why did you ask about the movie Titanic? You seem the historic reportage of the actual incident. You seem to see the modern day struggle in social classes. It seems very obvious that you even understand why using the Titanic as the stage to play out a fictional tale which a contemporary audience is a excellent way to draw modern day parallels. It seems the message was clear to both of us.

We'll end this tangent here. We've established that discussing the message of a story can be discussed. Certainly we can talk about how audiences digest/interpret atheistic characters so we can stay on topic.

spendius wrote:

PS--you should try not to talk down to people.

Nothing of your concern, spendi. I'm perfectly comfortable withthe level I address others and the level I expect them to be at.

spendius wrote:

It doesn't help your cause one little bit.

What is my cause spendi?

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  3  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 07:26 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Hi spendi, you're looking rather intelligent and liberated today.


I would assume that is a piss-take. In order to respond I would need to know your gender, which I think is female, and how you are dressed. Am I commiserating with a victim of love or simply seeing how the land lies.

You need to set the scene.

My apologies.

We're both wearing cotton summer dresses. My hair is down, and yours is in an updo. This is good choice as it accentuates your cheek bones, and it keeps the hair off your neck in these hot months. You have a faint lavender perfume, mine is a mild fragrance from the sandalwood soap I use.

The bar is dimly lit with about a dozen local patrons, all familiar faces to two sassy dolls like us. The dark varnished cherry counter of the bar has polished brass trimmings and and they don't use gas stills on their tap.

The mirror behind the bartender has a washed out 3"x5" photo of four men standing proudly around a vintage car. The man second from the left is your father, a detail you noted the first time you brought me here.

The music moves through the room well enough. The jukebox calls upon the roster of Johnny Cash, Frank Sinatra, and Bob Dylan. One of the speakers has a small tear in it so any song with any deep bass gives an awful scratchy sound.

The hinges on the entrance squeaks, and the door drags on the floor if you open it too wide.

I hope this helps.

A
R
The scene
Eorl
 
  4  
Fri 16 Jul, 2010 10:23 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

So what's the message in Titantic?

Two words: Unsinkable? Not-so-much.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 01:57 am
@failures art,
One of the most helpful posts I've ever seen.

spendius
 
  2  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 07:36 am
@dlowan,
In what way dwollie? You take the part of the bint with the updo and high cheekbones who pongs of lavender.

I'll be a trucker stopping overnight on my way to Shreveport with 30 tons of pump. I've just put I'll Be Your Baby Tonight on the jukebox and parked myself on a barstool next to Farty who is sobbing quietly and taking sips out of a cocktail which has a little plastic umbrella to keep the rain off, a slice of lemon, some orange peel for the zest, a couple of red cherries and a little pointed stick to spear them with. I'll not say what you're drinking because it's naff to promote Australian beer where I am but you have a half of it and it's nowhere near being half empty. You are presenting a compassionate mien.

We can do a moral crisis about love.

I'm keeping my eye on you both in the mirror with occasional sideways glances. It's a truckers stop on Highway 61. I had to take a detour to siphon the tank at a pal of mine's farm. But that was the night before last. Dead and gone.

Farty goes to the toilet clutching a handkerchief and I catch your eye, or you do mine- I haven't worked out yet which comes first--and I say "What's the matter with your friend?" " She's my sister", you reply, "and she's skint. She has all these bills and she's ducked the mortgage payments three times. A photographer friend of mine has offered her a job in the magazine business with other modelling assignments and she can't bring herself to take it. It's good money and she is good looking you must admit" "You both are", I reply without batting an eye.

After a pause and the glass drawing circles in the slops, it is a trucker's stop, you go on--"She alwaysh wash the regligous one. I couldn't shee what there wash in it myshelf". (If it's real movie insert the usual spiel here). "She knowsh what the work entailsh".

That's setting the scene. They can see what the wardrobe department can do. It's a movie not a book.

Take it away folks.



failures art
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 08:19 am
@spendius,
I return from the bathroom, dlowan mentions her favorite baseball player. She hates baseball. This is a known cue for me to assist her out of an unwanted conversation with a creep. It's a trucker, and he takes a little too much time staring at us both. I say that we've got plans, and I pay our tab.

We exit, and once on the street, immediately break into laughter. dlowan tells me that she fed him a line about me having massive debt and being out of work. She retells the pick-up lines he used. Our skin crawls, but by two blocks down the street, he's already forgotten.

We walk up the the ticket kiosk of a theater. It's an old time cinema playing 60's Sci Fi on Thursdays. It's only 2 bucks. Never mind the bars, too many sleaze bags. Tonight is a ladies night. Sisters only.

The End.

Meanwhile in a conversation about Atheism: I talked to my friend about House. He's a much greater fan than I. He said that the characters Foreman and Cameron are also Atheists. Can anyone more familiar verify this? If not, do you agree that this is at least implied. If it's true, then it would be very interesting to see how that interaction is presented, and what kinds of character traits are shared amongst them.

A
R
T
dyslexia
 
  2  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 08:42 am
@failures art,
well yes, Cameron is atheistic but expressed to House that she believes in the "sanctity of life" which seems to be in opposition to the beliefs of House. A bit confusing in that regard. Can an atheist believe in the "sanctity of life"? I certainly don't.
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:17 am
@failures art,
Quote:
I return from the bathroom, dlowan mentions her favorite baseball player. She hates baseball. This is a known cue for me to assist her out of an unwanted conversation with a creep. It's a trucker, and he takes a little too much time staring at us both. I say that we've got plans, and I pay our tab.

We exit, and once on the street, immediately break into laughter. dlowan tells me that she fed him a line about me having massive debt and being out of work. She retells the pick-up lines he used. Our skin crawls, but by two blocks down the street, he's already forgotten.

We walk up the the ticket kiosk of a theater. It's an old time cinema playing 60's Sci Fi on Thursdays. It's only 2 bucks. Never mind the bars, too many sleaze bags. Tonight is a ladies night. Sisters only.

The End.


That's just a long winded version of Ignore. It's stabbing the Ignore button in a manner which provides its own complacent justifications all of which are fanciful fictions fondly embraced for self comfort. Running away in other words. Sticking up a challenge and then bolting at the first one who steps up.

Now I know fa is female.

I was right up ready for a discussion about atheism in action in a moral crisis about love when Farty got back from the bogs. And you make your excuses and leave. So now we know you didn't want such a discussion but only to talk about us having one as if talking about having one is sufficient to imagine ourselves as being qualified to discuss such matters and the discussion itself is irrelevant or possibly feared. Like peeping through the fingers at the giant spider with hairy legs and gleaming eyes which comes bounding into the auditorium if you wear special glasses . It's peeping at the atheist's position on moral crises on matters of love. And lacks style. Cliche-ridden.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:30 am
@dyslexia,
Quote:
Can an atheist believe in the "sanctity of life"? I certainly don't.


Well dys- you probably have never felt that there is any reason to. You have discovered no evidence for the proposition and have concluded that those who have are having themselves on.

0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 09:36 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

well yes, Cameron is atheistic but expressed to House that she believes in the "sanctity of life" which seems to be in opposition to the beliefs of House. A bit confusing in that regard. Can an atheist believe in the "sanctity of life"? I certainly don't.


Perhaps it's code for the abortion argument.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 10:08 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

well yes, Cameron is atheistic but expressed to House that she believes in the "sanctity of life" which seems to be in opposition to the beliefs of House. A bit confusing in that regard. Can an atheist believe in the "sanctity of life"? I certainly don't.


Perhaps it's code for the abortion argument.


My initial thought. On second thought, it sounds like some back door god without god theology or something in that direction.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 11:18 am
@edgarblythe,
It's basically a sense of awe, and what some call an oceanic feeling, in the felt real presence of a mystery.

I felt some edges of it this afternoon as a helicopter followed the riders in the Tour de France from a distance and showed them passing through a landscape covered in a patchwork of crops of different colours and shapes and I fell to meditating upon the art depicting our intelligence in capturing the energies of the sun and turning them to our advantage given the opportunities geological movements have provided us with. It was not always so.

And many villages clustered around a church as if a magnet had drawn them there. And at the end of the stage a great cathedral dominating its surroundings as well it might as the source of the art.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 01:50 pm
A story from a friend of mine's blog.
Stay At Home Babe wrote:
At supper, I always ask Makaio what the best and worst part of his day was to get a frame of reference for what he’s done while he’s been at school. Then we talk about what he learned that day. He has a tendency to chat in class a lot, so he misses some important details pretty often. Last week when I asked him what he learned he said, “Today I learned something very exciting! Ms. Ward said that when we die, we get to come back as a different animal!”

At this point, my mindless nodding in agreement stopped, my fork was set down and I said, “Hang on a second, back up. I think you missed the part where she said some people believe that we might come back as a different animal. There’s no scientific proof of this. This is one of those religious beliefs that you should listen to, think about for a while, and decide what you believe when you’re older.”

“No, Mom. Ms. Ward said. So, it’s science.”

The teacher was kind enough to clear up the confusion the next day. But all the moms were sitting around the picnic tables talking about how their daughter wanted to come back as a unicorn and their son wanted to be a dinosaur. Somebody said, “If it’s true, I want to come back as a well-loved housecat.” Me too’s erupted all around the table. Anyone else see the humor in stay-at-home moms wanting to come back as housecats?


Full Post

I think she handled this situation pretty well.

A
Raising skeptical kids without abusing authority
T
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 02:12 pm
I believe it best to not indoctrinate the children overmuch, but be watchful that other people do not use their position of influence to lead them widely astray. That story was innocuous enough I would not be disturbed by it.
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 02:40 pm
I'm disturbed they want to come back as damned cat, a cat to shite on my lawn.
spendius
 
  0  
Sat 17 Jul, 2010 03:30 pm
@xris,
Actually xris they just needed something to say like in a word game. The story is incredible. Grotesque even.

But it serves to allow the atheists to let the idea slip from the consciousness that they have a duty to discuss the effects of atheism on individuals and on societies in which the promotion of atheism is successful which can be the only objective of preaching it.

A cat, even a housecat, is a predatory animal. They couldn't go for a lamb which is far more psychologically consistent with the Mom notion because they roast legs of lamb for dinner and guzzle them down their gluttonous maws. With mint sauce of course in a nice porcelein boat shaped dish with a floral design to neutralise any thoughts of the abbatoir.

Out of sight out of mind is really scientific.

 

Related Topics

The tolerant atheist - Discussion by Tuna
Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
church of atheism - Discussion by daredevil
Can An Atheist Have A Soul? - Discussion by spiritual anrkst
THE MAGIC BUS COMES TO CANADA - Discussion by Setanta
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Atheism
  3. » Page 73
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 03/10/2025 at 03:44:25