Atheism

@hingehead,

Quote:

Can you be buddhist without knowing any buddhist teachings?

Don't know. I suppose it is possible. I am not too concerned with being a Buddhist, it is practice rather than an identity, a vehicle rather than a destination.

Check out Pyrrhonism: How the Ancient Greeks Reinvented Buddhism

Eastern religions are concerned with liberation, spiritual freedom, not with pressing people into the mold of conformist dogma. I don't know if there is a direct counterpart of their idea of liberation in Western philosophy.

1 Reply

@failures art,

Quote:

Do you think that atheists are any less fulfilled in their life? You answered that atheists can find fulfillment, but when I pressed you to be clear on if they could achieve the same degree of fulfillment, you did not reply.

The reason why, is because I don't know. I have never been atheist, but have also never been a churchgoer. So I am in no-man's-land, in a way. But I don't think it is necessary to have a belief in God, no. It is more about the kind of being you are. If you are compassionate, self-aware, and non-egotistical, those qualities are great qualities whether you believe in religion or not. There are examples throughout history of atheist philosophers in this mold - the Meditations of Marcus Aurellius, and some of the more positive existentialists more recently. Buddhism does not worship a creator God or look to God for salvation, but the Buddha is understood to be 'world-transcending' (lokutara).

But I still say most atheism, including yours, is reflexive and reactive. From what you write, you are intelligent and argue very well, but your whole motivation is a reflexive dislike of anything you perceive to be religious. Have an open mind, is all I would say, because I don't think you do at this point.

4 Replies

So basically all of the discussion between atheists and theists comes down to no I'm not, yes you are, no I'm not, yes you are........ Which is why I wanted this thread to try to go another direction.

2 Replies

@Khethil,

I'm still trying to deal with your last post Khetie.

Quote:

But the idea that those who don't buy in to these potentially-successful control systems just want an excuse to be promiscuous sounds like the product of someone who can see that to be the ONLY possible motivation. Or its a not-so-veiled insult - a wide-reaching condemnation of those that don't think like they do; ostebsibly to inflame or condemn wholesale. And to the extent that this is the case, I'd term it narrow-mindedness.

That simply smears the idea that it is excuses for promiscuity being the likely statistical cause, hardly the ONLY cause , some people might have less sane reasons, with the pejorative term "narrow minded" . What if it is true or that a financial interest is involved. To point to something true is not narrow-mindedness. btw--I forgot artificial birth control which has reached the point of one's loved doxie having implants under the skin, under local anaesthetic of course, and that is a form of infibulation or else I'm a crossed-eyed owl at mid-day. I realise I will be accused of being a misogynist for pointing this out but that's a price I'm prepared to pay. And a fact is not an insult either. Nor a condemnation.

So there is a large constituency eager to be led into the sunny uplands just as there is to stuff down taste-bud satisfactions.

Quote:

Folks who want to destroy, hurt, steal or judge will likely do so regardless of their religious background.

That is true but how many would there be if there was no religious background to begin with.

Quote:

is it your feeling that whether or not we believe isn't relevant, but that we act as if we do in order to accept/reflect the behavioral controls that might come with religion is important?

Yes. If it was good enough for Roman Emperors it should be good enough for us. We act as if it isn't us who has farted don't we? Mostly.

Now it's bedtime. The Tour de France starts earlier than usual tomorrow.

Sweet dreams.

0 Replies

@jeeprs,

This is the difference - many of us don't care. We don't buy the whole bag of chickpeas. I don't mean to be insulting - but many of us are not engaged in spiritual endeavors, or, even philosophic ones, though we engage from time to time. Some call us Athiests, me, I'm without theism, and some call themselves skeptics.

Give me some reasons I should care or not that ancient greeks reinvented buddhism? I'd have to care about buddhism in the first place. The greeks do interest me somewhat, as a civilization, and I supppose buddhists might too, if I researched that.

1 Reply

@littlek,

Yes, but it is hard to just be allowed to talk over time. I get that, I tend to be a buttinsky.

Still, hi, k.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

jeeprs wrote:

Quote:
Do you think that atheists are any less fulfilled in their life? You answered that atheists can find fulfillment, but when I pressed you to be clear on if they could achieve the same degree of fulfillment, you did not reply.

The reason why, is because I don't know. I have never been atheist, but have also never been a churchgoer. So I am in no-man's-land, in a way. But I don't think it is necessary to have a belief in God, no. It is more about the kind of being you are. If you are compassionate, self-aware, and non-egotistical, those qualities are great qualities whether you believe in religion or not. There are examples throughout history of atheist philosophers in this mold - the Meditations of Marcus Aurellius, and some of the more positive existentialists more recently. Buddhism does not worship a creator God or look to God for salvation, but the Buddha is understood to be 'world-transcending' (lokutara).

But I still say most atheism, including yours, is reflexive and reactive. From what you write, you are intelligent and argue very well, but your whole motivation is a reflexive dislike of anything you perceive to be religious.

0 Replies

@jeeprs,

jeeprs wrote:

Quote:
Do you think that atheists are any less fulfilled in their life? You answered that atheists can find fulfillment, but when I pressed you to be clear on if they could achieve the same degree of fulfillment, you did not reply.

The reason why, is because I don't know. I have never been atheist, but have also never been a churchgoer. So I am in no-man's-land, in a way. But I don't think it is necessary to have a belief in God, no. It is more about the kind of being you are. If you are compassionate, self-aware, and non-egotistical, those qualities are great qualities whether you believe in religion or not. There are examples throughout history of atheist philosophers in this mold - the Meditations of Marcus Aurellius, and some of the more positive existentialists more recently. Buddhism does not worship a creator God or look to God for salvation, but the Buddha is understood to be 'world-transcending' (lokutara).

But I still say most atheism, including yours, is reflexive and reactive. From what you write, you are intelligent and argue very well, but your whole motivation is a reflexive dislike of anything you perceive to be religious.
Quote:

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

Hi back atcha. I know my aim was a pipe dream. Just offering an observation.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

jeeprs wrote:

But I still say most atheism, including yours, is reflexive and reactive. From what you write, you are intelligent and argue very well, but your whole motivation is a reflexive dislike of anything you perceive to be religious.

One more time, we don't believe what is promulgated. It's a void of belief.

Reflexive dislike is an active description.

Please, folks, listen to the real atheists here. Don't keep telling us what we think over and over and over and over.

0 Replies

@ossobuco,

Quote:

This is the difference - many of us don't care. We don't buy the whole bag of chickpeas.

well that's perfectly OK, there are tons of things I am not interested in also. Mechanical devices, outer space, European politics...the list is endless really. As it happens, I started posted to online forums on the questions of atheism and religious belief. It interests me.

Theism is a word I am really beginning to dislike. It reminds me of 'embolism' or something. Some kind of cramp or spasm. All my theism started with acid trips in the 1960s. I had experiences of breaking through into an amazing realm of being. It was so amazing, I wanted to understand why I couldn't be in that state without hallucinogens. I am not alone in that, it is archetypal 60's.

The reason I brought up skepticism, was because people brandish skepticism as a kind of antidote to any kind of spirituality. In fact, skepticism started out a spiritual discipline which doubted anything that was not present in immediate experience. It was quite an ascetic discipline practiced by renunciates. Nowadays skepticism is mainly a defense of bourgeois normality. It is a completely different mindset. Most people who call themselves skeptics have an ideological agenda based on their view of what it Good and Right. It has nothing to do with skepticism as it was originally practiced.

Of course, this is a minority view. I nearly always present a minority view, it is idiosyncratic and very much my own. But I try to base it on reading and argument.

2 Replies

The theists come to a thread like this, claiming just an interest in what atheists think or do, (we are not here to criticise or argue) but to a man they want to preach and argue us out of it. There are a dozen threads for that out there, but they don't give a ****. They barge in here and turn it into a free for all. I don't count spendi among them. He at least is upfront in wanting to destroy a thread like this. I don't respect a one of them and by now I am sure they have an aversion to me (so much for Christian charity). But it really tears me that they disrespect little k like this.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

And I of course don't care what the original skeptics said, that's just a useful word (but yes, I'd heard of them). Nothing to do with spirituality unless you want it to. The core atheists on this thread have fairly simple points of view, which keep getting bombarded. I admit to skipping part of the last thirty pages. The thread was for us to talk. With any luck and some bon bons, I'll go back and reread those.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

I am not preaching, I don't quote the Bible or try and solicit membership to a religion. My attitude is pantheistic and pan-spiritual, in fact I would be banned out of an evangelical thread straight away, I am technically heretical. The likes of me were always victimized by the Christian church, now I am using the marvellous freedoms of the secular state to offer an experiential perspective, not a dogmatic one.

So what is your problem?

0 Replies

@jeeprs,

"I started posted to online forums on the questions of atheism and religious belief. It interests me."
Yes, but we've been trying to keep this as a conversation for us atheists, as we rarely get that chance, and the polite littlek started the thread with her intentions - and succeeded for the first (approx) 25 pages.

I don't mean you shouldn't post, but.. the point of the thread is for us to talk about our atheism, one way or another. This has been pretty much blasted away, but we mean to continue our conversation.

That is our problem, that we can't hold a conversation that was asked for.

Please post your concerns about atheism on one of the other many threads.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

OK then.

1 Reply

@jeeprs,

Thank you. You are certainly not the key offender, at all, indeed you are polite and we appreciate that - but this isn't just open city for target practice. We are very weary of that, and like a place to talk.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

To give a few inches, jeeprs, I used to be somewhat interested in the gnostics. (Another thread, perhaps)

0 Replies

@littlek,

Well, Kay, i'm really sorry to see the thread getting trashed this way. In a way, although there is way too much of that drivel being posted here, it is exemplary of what every atheist experiences in life when it becomes known that they don't believe any of the god stories. It seems to make the religionists, the "spiritualists" nervous. It seems that they are constitutionally unable to accept that there might be people who live happy fulfilled lives without adhering to any of the superstitions which seem to be basic to their own happiness. So they attempt to establish an equivalence in "atheism," to suggest that it's a world view, a belief set, rather than the simple rejection of the majoritarian tyranny of belief, of world view.

It didn't need pages and pages of that tripe, however, to make the point.

0 Replies

@littlek,

littlek strarted with

Quote:

I'd like this thread to be open for constructive conversation, sharing of ideas and resources, etc.

One big issue that some friends and I feel is weird is that religious people seem to feel that we are persecuting them. I can't see how that could be given that we represent such a small minority of any population. If anything, it is we who are persecuted.

personally I am saddened that her intention was never realized.

1 Reply

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know