FBM
 
  1  
Wed 13 May, 2015 06:06 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I remember a class in Phenomenology that was entirely a study of Being and Time. Memory fades, but I seem to recall us spending at least two weeks on the first page or so.

I tried to read it too. I doubt the whole thing means anything, really. It's like Wittgenstein's Tractatus: pure gibberish. Some "philosophers" think that the more obscure and incomprehensible they are, the better they look.


No joke. The ones that I want to choke out are the ones who try to beat everybody over the head with their one-upsmanship vocabulary and deliberate, pretentious obfuscation. The douchnozzle from the Eng. Lit. dept. that I mentioned in that post was like that. In my book, you score points by making sense, not by being incomprehensible. To paraphrase, if you can't explain it to the average person, then you don't understand it well enough.
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 13 May, 2015 06:14 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Interesting to know you found H stimulating. You might not be aware that aspects of both Heidegger and Derrida made them "good guys" for Rorty in the reference above, largely because they both considered language as the key to understanding "philosophical" issues.


Heidegger, I can work with, but Derrida? http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/puke.gif That said, let me quickly add that I realize that my attitude towards Derrida is unfair. It's guilt by association. The verbose Eng. Lit. twat that ruined the Phenomenology class was huge on Derrida, so I naturally associate him (Derrida) with wankerhood. I should probably give him another chance, all things considered.
Herald
 
  0  
Wed 13 May, 2015 09:28 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
The ones that I want to choke out are the ones who try to beat everybody over the head with their one-upsmanship vocabulary and deliberate, pretentious obfuscation.
     The infinite aggression is usually explained by the lack of knowledge carrier.
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 13 May, 2015 09:30 pm
@Herald,
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/dielaughing.gif Case in point...
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 01:28 am
Fresco was just touting his preferred scriptural purity. He also attempts to stifle dissent by claiming that anyone who does not agree with him is incapable of understanding. He makes no distinction between an objective reality and descriptions of reality. If reality is created by language users and social consensus, whence the language users, whence the consensus builders? Are we to believe that language users spring fully-grown, armed and armored from the forehead of Dame Philosophy, like Athena from the brow of Zeus? This is the question upon which his religious creed breaks down. The first time i asked him that he lashed out at me with invidious personal reflections. He knows his vulnerability, and doesn't care to have it pointed out.
fresco
 
  0  
Thu 14 May, 2015 01:54 am
@FBM,
One aspect of Derrida I found significant was his reference to aporia which simplistically is about inevitable logical clashes. This reflects a holistic view of "existence" because the meaning of any assertions of what "is" necessarily is predicated on contrast with "what is not". This fits well with non-representationalist views of language and rejection of the correspodence theory of truth, both of which underpin views about the linguistic construction of "reality".

A second related aspect which appeals is Derrida's appreciation of the dynamism of "context" (similar to Heidegger's view that "existence" is essentially temporal). This fits well at the macro-level with Kuhn's paradigms, and and at micro-levels contrasts with static traditional logic which relies on fixed set membership from which "the law of the excluded middle" is derived (usurped by aspects of quantum mechanics) Here may reside another basis for aporia.

Obviously some of Derrida's views were hijacked by some people with a political agenda who gave it a bad reputation, but like Heidegger's Nazism we need to separate the wheat from the chaff.
fresco
 
  0  
Thu 14 May, 2015 02:24 am
@Setanta,
Thank you for contributing to the great " get fresco" game. You attempting to point out "my vulnerability" is on a par with "being savaged by a dead sheep" .(Margaret Thatcher).

I'll repeat ..."reality" is not "created" by language users. It is a word used in different contexts to negotiate "what is the case". Words are tokens of communicative exchange (languaging) which like currency fluctuate in value. And "creation" is another word with theistic nuances which dualistic realists understand in contrast with "spontaneous emergence" or "mechanistic causality". The importance of contrast and context in semantics contributed to the move by philosophers away from traditional analysis.

But the "get fresco team", united by sour grapes and philosophical illiteracy, will no doubt continue to operate on A2K whenever members have nothing original to say about the the subject of a thread, in resentment of those like me who might.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 02:56 am
@fresco,
It wasn't Thatcher who made the dead sheep jibe, it was Denis Healey.
Setanta
 
  0  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:07 am
@fresco,
The great get Fresco game . . . Ah-hahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Paranoia strikes deep . . .




Poor bay-bee . . .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:10 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:
But the "get fresco team", united by sour grapes and philosophical illiteracy, will no doubt continue to operate on A2K whenever members have nothing original to say about the the subject of a thread, in resentment of those like me who might.


Leaving aside your hilarious paranoia, the topic of this thread is atheism--specifically, the experience of being an atheist in contemporary society. Yeah, you might have something to say on the topic, but i don't see you saying it, poor Mr. Get Fresco.
fresco
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:14 am
@izzythepush,
I stand corrected ! Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  0  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:16 am
@Setanta,
Maybe the nurse was taking you for your walk earlier in the thread. Smile
FBM
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:25 am
@fresco,
Quote:
Obviously some of Derrida's views were hijacked by some people with a political agenda who gave it a bad reputation, but like Heidegger's Nazism we need to separate the wheat from the chaff.


That's flush with my experience. I'm working through his Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry now in order to give him a fair shake. About 1/3 of the way through, I already have a very different perspective on his work than the one the asshat poseur (I use that term with intentional irony; people who use that spelling are often unwittingly indicting themselves Wink ) in that class gave me. Will report back.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:32 am
@fresco,
Maybe Fresco's topic is always Fresco's thoughts, so he always thinks he's on topic. The snide insult is a typical response on your part when you can't defend your position. This thread is about the experience of being an atheist in contemporary society. I see you as a disrupting troll no different and no better than Frank or Layman, or any of the religious kooks we get in here. You just peddle a different religion, complete with its own scripture.
Frank Apisa
 
  -3  
Thu 14 May, 2015 03:35 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Maybe Fresco's topic is always Fresco's thoughts, so he always thinks he's on topic. The snide insult is a typical response on your part when you can't defend your position. This thread is about the experience of being an atheist in contemporary society. I see you as a disrupting troll no different and no better than Frank or Layman, or any of the religious kooks we get in here. You just peddle a different religion, complete with its own scripture.


You are so full of yourself, Setanta. Try to get over it, because you look like Fresco with your self-perceived, self-importance.
fresco
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 06:37 am
@Setanta,
.....said "the King of Insults". Laughing

If you are too lazy to read back in this thread to my re-entry a couple of weeks ago and follow the exchanges from there, that's your problem.

What are you are doing here anyway other than playing the "get fresco" game ? Is the problem that there are no threads at the moment on which to dazzle us with your historical knowledge (which even I have acknowledged at times !).

Heh! Do you want a suggestion how to get in on this one ? .Why not give us a bit of background on the Lisbon Earthquake 1755 and the subsequent crises in Christianity with particular reference to Leibnitz's theodicy with respect to contemporary demands for evidence. (ref: Voltaire)

Now come on ....is that being helpful or what ? Smile

EDIT: If you pull in a bit of Levinas you can take us right up to the Holocaust and the current status of "belief".
Olivier5
 
  -4  
Thu 14 May, 2015 08:56 am
@FBM,
Quote:
To paraphrase, if you can't explain it to the average person, then you don't understand it well enough.

Exactly. Popper had a great passage in the Open Society where he explains that specific problems may call for new specific concepts but that the rule should always be to keep the number of such new concepts at an absolute minimum. Never be more complex than you absolutely need to be in order to treat a particular problem. This was in a critique of Hegel, who was pretty much the prototype for the needlessly verbose, non-sensical and pompous philosopher.

The type appeals to vacuous heads à la Fresco. When you have nothing to say, say that there is nothing to say, that no one in his right mind could have anything to say... say it pretentiously and with odd words. and you will look justified in your vacuity.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 09:21 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You are so full of yourself, Setanta. Try to get over it, because you look like Fresco with your self-perceived, self-importance.


Yeah, Frank, those two don't need a mirror to see themselves in that respect, eh? They just need to stand face to face.

I'm not complaining though. In small doses, I do find watching a bitch fight to be somewhat entertaining.

Plus, it gives me a rare opportunity to be able to tell these two: "You're both right!"
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 11:37 am
@layman,
I've don't start things with people like Setanta, Layman, but when he looks to start things up, I usually oblige.

Lately, I've kinda enjoyed sitting back watching you bitch slap him silly several times when he has started things with you.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Thu 14 May, 2015 11:43 am
@layman,
I see a big difference between Setanta and Fresco. The former is a terminal asshole alright, but he has some knowledge to share. The latter is much more polite but he is shallowness incarnated.
 

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