Atheism

@layman,

Quote:

Maybe not, but you were implying that there was some standard for judging them to be "correct" (or not). Otherwise, there is no reason for you to say: "I'm not saying they are correct."

See there you go again reading things into what you read but not what I said.

But if you do get into the Morality issue, setting values etc, I guess I've come to believe that morality is relative and subjective.
Maybe that's a little clearer

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@argome321,

Quote:

But if you do get into the Morality issue, setting values etc, I guess I've come to believe that morality is relative and subjective.

Yeah, that's clear, and it's consistent with what you've already said, i.e., that there are no inalienable rights.

I'm not saying you have to believe in them. Just making his point that if you do believe in them, then you also believe in something "supernatural" (i.e., human rights). His comment was directed towards Thomas.

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@layman,

Quote:

I'm not saying you have to believe in them. Just making his point that if you do believe in them, then you also believe in something "supernatural" (i.e., human rights). His comment was directed towards Thomas.

I understood what he meant but I was trying, and perhaps I did a poor job of it, to say since I can't know the supernatural world, if it exist or not, that my values are based on this so called natural world.

But for argument sake, let's say that some how there is a supernatural universe. That would not necessarily mean that our rights were any more inalienable then they may be in the natural world.

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@argome321,

Quote:

That would not necessarily mean that our rights were any more inalienable then they may be in the natural world.

No, not as a matter of practice, anyway. A guy could still kill you even if you are deemed to have an "inalienable" right to life.

The difference is in theory, not practice.

In theory, inalienable rights are universals, and can never be violated without a wrong being committed. With positive law, it is only wrong to kill if the laws on the books say so. It could not possibly be "wrong" to lynch a black man in the old south, under that view.

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To quote good old Sonny Terry on the topic:

Well, ya can't plant cotton, and expect to gather corn...
You can't take right, girl, and turn it into wrong...
That's why I'm walkin....
Walkin my blues away.

1 Reply

@argome321,

Quote:

I don't think there is a such a thing as inalienable rights per se.

Constitutions, War Crimes, the basis for Law....all thrown out the window . If you dont like someone or have no regards for their "rights", then what arent you capable of ??

Many of the rights you now enjoy come from religion .

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@Ionus,

From another thread:

Quote:

Who knew?

Quote:
Identifying a same-sex couple as "a homosexual couple," characterizing their relationship as "a homosexual relationship," or identifying their intimacy as "homosexual sex" is extremely offensive...

http://www.glaad.org/reference/offensive

http://able2know.org/topic/267741-1#post-5888279

Do you ever get the feeling that some of these minority groups are not too happy with what they are?

I knew a black homosexual atheist jew once. He could get extremely offended if you even looked at him, ya know?

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@layman,

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Do you ever get the feeling that some of these minority groups are not too happy with what they are?

I am happy being a buy sexual, I just havent been able to afford it yet .

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I knew a black homosexual atheist jew once.

Yes, I remember her well . She was having all sorts of problems with a planned sex change . Apparently she would have to have a penis constructed and then circumcised . For that period of time he would not be a Jew . The local synagogue then refused to circumcise him because he was an Atheist . Unforunately the only penis available for transplanting was 4" and white . So, he bought treatments to make the rest of him match . This left him with only terminal Atheism which took his life before he could marry the love of his life, Charles Atlas, who was secretly a woman long before strong women were fashionable . He is now burning in hell . This has stuffed up the record keeping something shocking . Heaven consigned a female, Hell receipted a male . Someone will have to pay for the missing....people... Confused

Then there is the financial cost...all because she didnt want to be thought of as a homosexual when she had sex with women . As for me, when I am having sex with women, what anybody else thinks about it, is the last thing on my mind .

Be a nice rock if it wasnt inhabited by people .

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Quote:

Quote:
I don't think there is a such a thing as inalienable rights per se.
Constitutions, War Crimes, the basis for Law....all thrown out the window . If you dont like someone or have no regards for their "rights", then what arent you capable of ??p bringng. 2,

Many of the rights you now enjoy come from religion .

That'a a bit of an assumption on your part -quite a bit.

Second, Since you make the assertion you have to prove that many rights I enjoy are from religion, this is utter nonsense.

Third. I'm not suggesting we should not have laws, no society can exist without them.

Fourth, you continue to show that you can not grasp anything that I have said.

I started out saying basically that to say human rights compared with supernatural is a bad analogy. One, human rights thought it doesn't exist at least it can be conceptualized in meaningful terminology and perhaps useful where it helps us we can codify some types of human behavior. ain you throw your two cents into the fray without a clue.Where as the supernatural since we can't prove it's existence is useless in the same vein as the way the concept of human rights can be used.

It's apple and oranges

So again you have thrown your two cent into the fray without a clue. 2 Cents

1 Reply

@layman,

Quote:

To quote good old Sonny Terry on the topic:

Well, ya can't plant cotton, and expect to gather corn...
You can't take right, girl, and turn it into wrong...
That's why I'm walkin....
Walkin my blues away.

I feel ya

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@Ionus,

Heh, I never knew. That poor guy had more problems than I thought. There he was, actively seeking to change himself in a way that would only make him more of a minority, eh?

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As for me, when I am having sex with women, what anybody else thinks about it, is the last thing on my mind .

I wish I could be that way. I always have to keep an eye out and an ear open for a husband who's coming home unexpectedly.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If you believe in human rights, you believe in something supernatural.

I disagree. Human rights are products of human brains, of which my own brain approves. That makes human rights artificial, but not supernatural. Every brain involved in the invention, codification, approval, and enforcement of human rights is a natural object.

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@Thomas,

Quote:

I disagree. Human rights are products of human brains, of which my own brain approves. That makes human rights artificial, but not supernatural. Every brain involved in the invention, codification, approval, and enforcement of human rights is a natural object

But where in nature can these rights be seen, and subjected to empirical "testing?" You may believe in human laws. That's fine. But that's not "human rights" as any "standard." Human rights, if said to be "inalienable," must ultimately resort to a metaphysical basis commonly called "natural law."

1 Reply

@layman,

layman wrote:

But where in nature can these rights be seen, and subjected to empirical "testing?"

I'm not saying that they can. The expression "I believe in human rights" is merely poetic language for saying "I approve of human rights, and I'm willing to make an effort to defend them." It need not imply that human rights can be seen anywhere in nature, and it would be a mistake to take it literally in that way.

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@Thomas,

Quote:

American Heritage dictionary, definitions 1--3, work for me.

Nobody cares what definition works for you, remember?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
American Heritage dictionary, definitions 1--3, work for me.

Nobody cares what definition works for you, remember?

Nice try turning the tables on me, but you asked, so I answered.

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@Thomas,

I didn't ask anything.

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@argome321,

I believe in hummus rights.

That goes well with wafers.

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@Olivier5,

In post 5919069, Olivier5 wrote:

May i suggest the American Heritage Dictionary?

In post 5922647, Olivier5 wrote:

I didn't ask anything.

The question mark at the end of your sentence certainly fooled me. And if you insist on being literal about the matter, let me rephrase my answer as follows: Yes. Yes you may suggest the American Heritage Dictionary.

1 Reply

Any “rights” we have are far from “inalienable.” They tend, in fact, to be taken from us more easily than they are obtained.

Even if there is a GOD…any rights we have have not been given to us by the GOD…they have almost always been earned and maintained though the shedding of a good deal of blood.

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