Atheism

Evolution takes undeserved heat for a lot that relates to atheists. Speaking for myself, I was born an atheist. I have always disbelieved the supernatural explanations. As a kid, when somebody brought it up, I tried to suspend doubt and go along with the notion, just to test it. It was always a wash. Reading religious works, such as the Bible and attending church altered nothing. One of my brothers was the same way. Nothing personal to the believers. It is just so.

... on that topic, I'd like to tell y'all about attending the Church of Beethoven with Diane this morning, before she brought me to the airport. It's a nice example of how nonbelievers can co-opt the forms and aesthetics of religion without diluting it with the god stuff.

A few years ago, a cellist at the Albuquerque Symphony orchestra founded the Church of Beethoven, setting up shop in a remodeled garage / gas station in Albuquerque, NM. (I don't remember the cellists' name, so I'll just call him "the Founder".) Today about 150 people attended, which just about fills the church entirely. (They already rented extra space since I last visited in April 2009.)

As you approach the building from the parking lot, you walk past a number of modern sculptures, including one of a stick-man walking on water. After the Founder, his wife, and her dog have greeted you at the entrance, you enter the line in front of the coffee machine, were two volunteers brew gourmet coffees. (They really are gourmet coffees, so the line was about 20 people long.)

After you've had your espresso or whatever it is, you take your seat. Looking around, you see pictures by "the visual artist of the weekend" (Some abstract watercolors.) Near the edge of the room, you can watch a local massage therapist giving free 10-minute massages to fellow attendees. Then the Founder announces the musical gig of the day. It happens to be a bebop-ish Jazz quartet by the name of Le Chat Lunatique.

After they play maybe 30 minutes worth of their Jazz, it's time for the poet of the day. It's Demetria Martinez, a local writer and activist of Mexican ancestry. She reads a few poems about Indians complaining about illegal aliens from the East Coast, and Mexicans complaining about being treated as illegal aliens by the Anglos. In spite of all the complaining, Martinez's poetry is witty and entertaining.

Following the poetry reading comes a minute of "celebrating silence". Regular church goers will be familiar with this ritual. Their Christian denominations call it "silent prayer". I enjoyed this part very much. With or without prayer, the silence is perfect for relaxing and defragmenting the mind. Finally, Le Chat Lunatique closes with a few more pieces. And that's it.

I hope the Church of Beethoven starts up charters elsewhere in the world. If and when one arrives in the New York area, I'll join it in a microsecond.

Same path as Thomas, but raised catholic...

Like what? And why undeserved? I quite agree with conservative Christians that understanding and accepting evolution will make one more inclined to becoming an infidel, or to remaining one if that's what one already is. The point where they and I disagree is that I think this is a good thing, whereas they think it's bad.

Must be. Archbishops are such shameless hangers-on these days!

In my case, evolution is brought up in every discussion on the subject, as if it were the whole crux of the matter. But I pointed out just now that it has little to do with my position, except as an arguing point.

Oh, I totally agree there are other reasons than evolutions to disbelieve in god. At the same time, I think it's quite true that evolution leaves god with nothing to do. Conservative American evangelicals are quite right to feel threatened by it.

So what's the opposite of Conservative American evangelicals who one supposes love evolution.

Actually, a number of them have covered themselves in inglory this easter.

Ours are in trouble for attacking atheists (one of them, Pell, is such a **** that he's often in trouble for his nastiness.)

The archbishop of Canterbury is right in the pooh for his derogatory comments about the Irish church and its child sexual abuse problems. Ahem...believe me, the Anglican church has NO right to be attacking others about that matter!!!

Jebus would be rolling over in his grave if he hadn't already purportedly left it!

Lots of church folk have no problem with evolution.

Fascinating subject ain't it?

Lots as in auction sales. How many do you mean?

I can't agree with this at all. If there were a "god," that god could be prime mover. That could be in the gross sense of simply having created the cosmos, or the more finite sense of having provided the "spark" that makes animate, self-replicating bags of chemicals from inanimate materials.

Actually, the problems for evangelicals and charismatics in the United States are at least two. One is that they insist upon a literal reading of scripture, which leaves absolutely no room to question "special creation" of plants, animals and humanity--and therefore is directly contradicted by a theory of evolution. The other major problem is the most childish, and that is conceit. If one posits a god which simply creates the cosmos, then it is entirely reasonable for that god to have started evolutionary processes on planets of billions upon billions of stars. The problem the religiously fervent have with that is that they imagine themselves to be the pinnacle of creation--the center of god's attention. A god who simply creates, starts the process and moves on flies in the face of the notion of some old white dude up among the stars busily taking notes, and recording the fall of every sparrow, never mind the manifold idiocies of the human race.

No, there are many concepts of a deity which would have the old boy working his ass off "24/7."

Sure, but evolution left the gods with nothing crucial to do.

Before evolution, humanity without some kind of intelligent designer seemed impossible. Post Darwin, sure, gods could have any influence they wanted, but have gone to extreme lengths to make it appear as though they had no input whatsoever, making their existence illogical and improbable far more than was the case before Darwin.

Fair enough. I append my statement "that evolution leaves god with nothing to do" to say "that evolution leaves god with nothing to do over the last three billion years." And although deists like Jefferson and Paine would have no problem with this, conservative American evangelicals most definitely would. We seem to agree they are quite right to be threatened by it. As you say, science in general and evolutionary biology in particular leave no room for the kind of god who creates each species separately, drowns nearly all members of each species in a global flood, answers your prayers, obsesses about your sex life, and hates gays in spite of having created all those gay penguins.

Despite your protestations that you can't agree with what I said at all, we do seem to agree on quite a lot.

Godless should read Goddess soz.

The Christian sensibilities are on display in the "no pants". We don't want to be startling any chickens. The lady depicted in the Venus of Willendorf had no pants.

Generally speaking, they fought and fucked and screwed with humanity....ain't that somethin'?

Really Thomas . . . this is just not done. I can't think how you expect us to enjoy with one another's company if we go around agreeing on things . . .