Atheism

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

Trep! Long time no hear.

Hi hingehead..... nice to see you Exclamation

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FWIW, my thought on atheism is that those who choose to be are entitled to their choice just as those who choose religion are entitled to their's.

Those who believe in God do so with the knowledge that it is their faith that is all that is needed. Of course, they cannot see God.

Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.

In that sense, both groups are the same. I do get confused when some atheists insist on berating something in which they do not believe exists.

As a Christian, I can say that I have never met an atheist that I didn't like. People have differing views on many things, but it seems that it is religion, or lack of, that causes a lot of hatred etc.

Peace and love.

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@Intrepid,

Welcome back, Intrepid.
You look as good as ever.

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@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

Some Australian comedian used to note 'What if there is a second coming? And Jesus see's all these crucifixes? He'd be like "Gee, thanks for the reminder you unfeeling creeps"'

I suppose if he'd been shot, folks would have little handguns hanging from their necks.

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@Intrepid,

When an atheist criticizes religion, it is mostly from a need for self defense.

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@edgarblythe,

It's kind of silly, though, isn't it? It's not going to change anyone's mind about what they believe. I've never seen it done in my 79 years on this planet.

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@Intrepid,

Intrepid wrote:

Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.

In that sense, both groups are the same. I do get confused when some atheists insist on berating something in which they do not believe exists.

No they're not the same. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Trivial claims do not.

It is an extraordinary claim that there exists a supernatural personality who has created the universe, enacted its laws, occasionally suspends them at will to create what we call "miracles", answers our prayers, impregnates virgins, tortures himself to death to redeem us of our sins, and multiple other things that Christians profess belief in when they recite the Apostle's prayer each Sunday.

By contrast, the claim that there exists no such extraordinary personality is trivial by comparison. The lack of evidence for gods, Christian or not, is not symmetrically kind to both beliefs.

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@Intrepid,

There certainly are some ranting atheist jerks. By and large, though, i believe that what atheist deplore is the policies of religionists.

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@Thomas,

It does kind of smack of that 'fair & balanced coverage of a debate' that considers both sides of say, the climate change debate, should get equal TV coverage, even though the evidence has convinced 97% of climate scientists. In every talking head piece that involves Lord Monckton there should be 33 Al Gores.

The key word is 'testable' because clearly there are more theists than atheists. So just based on beliefs we atheists should STFU.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
Those who do not believe in God do so with the knowledge that they do not actually know whether God actually exists.

In that sense, both groups are the same. I do get confused when some atheists insist on berating something in which they do not believe exists.

No they're not the same. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Trivial claims do not.

It is an extraordinary claim that there exists a supernatural personality who has created the universe, enacted its laws, occasionally suspends them at will to create what we call "miracles", answers our prayers, impregnates virgins, tortures himself to death to redeem us of our sins, and multiple other things that Christians profess belief in when they recite the Apostle's prayer each Sunday.

By contrast, the claim that there exists no such extraordinary personality is trivial by comparison. The lack of evidence for gods, Christian or not, is not symmetrically kind to both beliefs.

The claim that there exists no such extraordinary personality IS NOT TRIVIAL by comparison...it is equal...or more extraordinary, Thomas.

If there is such a personality...that personality COULD IF IT CHOSE...reveal itself to everyone or some people...and actual KNOWLEDGE of its existence AT LEAST COULD EXIST.

The claim that no such personality exists (or an exist) is never anything more than a BLIND GUESS.

Anyone making an assertion that no gods exist...is making a VERY extraordinary claim...and should provide proof of the claim.

Of course they can't.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Hello, Intrepid. Good to "see" ya.

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It is to me the height of vanity to claim that god-belief is equal to non god-belief, since the former is asserted without evidence of any kind. Non god-belief is simply saying, there is no cause to accept the unsubstantiated product of another's imagination.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

It is to me the height of vanity to claim that god-belief is equal to non god-belief, since the former is asserted without evidence of any kind. Non god-belief is simply saying, there is no cause to accept the unsubstantiated product of another's imagination.

Yeah...but the assertion that "there are no gods" is NOT simply saying "there is no cause to accept the unsubstantiated product of another's imagination."

We've discussed this point many times.

I do not believe in any gods.

That is quite different from saying that I am asserting there are no gods.

My comment about people who assert there are no gods...stands.

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Horse apples, frank.

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@edgarblythe,

Frank wrote - as if he's the speaker for everybody concerning gods,

Quote:

My comment about people who assert there are no gods...stands.

It stands for what? NOTHING!

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

By contrast, the claim that there exists no such extraordinary personality is trivial by comparison.

     The claim that the Big Bang has created through evolution the Universe out of Nothing it is not exactly trivial.
     1. Nobody has shown any serious evidences so far that Big Bang can exist in the physical world, can create 3D space through explosion, etc.
     2. A theory that is in contradiction with 90% of the laws of physics and 99% of the math laws of probability and math logic, could be called everything else but trivial.
     3. The very term creation through evolution is contradiction in the self, and any concept which refers to it is untenable.
     4. The act of creation of conscience out of star dust or whatever, and DNA sequence out of changes in the weather is by itself super-extraordinary and requires extraordinary and direct evidences.
     5. The existence of intelligence in the Universe is not extraordinary claim for we have at least one instance of it - our own intelligence. Extraordinary is to claim that this is a stochastic event and that it can happen anywhere in the Universe ... without any evidences.
     6. The claim that we are in the center of the Universe (the red shift is equal in all directions) is also extraordinary ... and needs extraordinary evidences (different from the shift in the light spectrum).
     7. The claim that the SS is 4.8 billion years, the Universe is 13.68 billion years (everywhere), and that the Big Bang is creating the 3D space along the edges at present is not only extraordinary - it is mind blowing, and has to find out some extraordinary evidences that the Universe in its center (where we are right now) is 13.68 billion years (notwithstanding that the SS is 4.8 billion years, and there are no traces of something existing before that time), and along its edges is zero years old (just created).

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@Herald,

There continues to be more evidence for the big bang than any other explanation for the physical universe.

Saying "god created everything" is not evidence of anything. It's total fiction based on mythology and nothing more.

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@Herald,

Herald wrote:

The claim that the Big Bang has created through evolution the Universe out of Nothing it is not exactly trivial.

1) You're right, I shouldn't believe such a claim about the Big Bang without evidence. And I won't. BUT . . .

2) This claim is entirely independent of the claim that any gods exist, including the particular god of the Judeo-Christian Bible. If the claim was false, that wouldn't prove the existence, or even the likelihood, of such gods. So I don't understand why you're pivoting towards it.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Horse apples, frank.

No, Edgar.

There is a substantial difference between someone saying "I do not believe in gods"...and "I believe there are no gods."

Weak atheists and agnostics "do not believe in gods."

Strong atheists actually have a belief on the matter...and that belief is that there are no gods.

Sorry you cannot see it.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank wrote - as if he's the speaker for everybody concerning gods,

Quote:
My comment about people who assert there are no gods...stands.

It stands for what? NOTHING!

Nonsense.

My statement was:

Quote:

Anyone making an assertion that no gods exist...is making a VERY extraordinary claim...and should provide proof of the claim.

If they cannot...they should not be making the claim.

They should stick with a variation of "I am not buying into the guess that there is a GOD."

1 Reply

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