Atheism

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
you CAN make a logical comment about something you cannot observe.
“I do not know if there are any living beings on any planet circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol”…is totally appropriate. No need to observe to make that comment.
[emphasis added]
Literally, this is a comment about what you KNOW, and you can "observe" what you know - it's inside your head, not lightyears away.

C'mon, Olivier. "I do not know if there are any living beings on any planet circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol"...is a totally appropriate and logical comment to make about what I do or do not know.

Your statement is indeed about what you KNOW of these planets, not about these planets themselves... You can easily observe what you know, it is inside YOUR OWN HEAD.

Quote:

Quote:
The rest of your post is at the same level of confusion between 2 different levels: the thing in itself, and our knowledge of this thing. For a realist like me, these are two very different things. Try not to confuse them.

There is no confusion in my posts, Olivier...and honestly, there is very little in yours either. [...] you are vacillating between saying it is wrong...and that it is merely a tautology.

That is laughable. If it is a tautology...it is not wrong.

It is a tautology, a platitude, a trivially true statement. Something which everybody agrees to by virtue of how the term of the statement are generally defined. Something true by definition.

Certainly not something I disagree with, technically, but not something I would raise for thousands of posts on end either.

Is this formulation "vascillating"?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I suspect that you know exactly what I am talking about...and further I suspect you mostly agree with what I am saying, but just do not have the strength of character to simply say that you do.

Don't stop at suspicions. After all, I defined them my way and you did not like my definitions... Simply and honestly say how you define "gods" and "knowledge" and we shall objectively see if it's very far from my understanding of these terms posted upthread...

1 Reply

Quote:

Frank Apisa said:"YHWH is one of the most absurd, barbaric, disgusting, sickening gods ever invented"
(and then went on to post a bunch of harsh Old T verses)

Mate, you're so obsessed with the Old T, you'd make a good old-time fundy preacherman!
Sure, God had to kick heathen butt if they asked for it, you sound like a hand-wringing bleeding-heart lefty social worker!
You once had fire in your belly in your Air Force days when you were quite prepared to nuke russki men/women/children, so some people might even call you absurd, barbaric, disgusting, sickening.. Wink

Here's the Strategic Air Command badge which was painted on the noses of your nuclear bombers and sewn to your uniform depicting a fist grasping thunderbolts and olive branches representing war and peace respectively.
God probably has the same badge on his jacket because it sends out the clear message that he wants peace, but that if anybody crosses him they get a fistful of thunderbolts in their kissers.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/B-47_nose_zps5e3e0f3e.jpg~original

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
you CAN make a logical comment about something you cannot observe.
“I do not know if there are any living beings on any planet circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol”…is totally appropriate. No need to observe to make that comment.
[emphasis added]
Literally, this is a comment about what you KNOW, and you can "observe" what you know - it's inside your head, not lightyears away.

C'mon, Olivier. "I do not know if there are any living beings on any planet circling the nearest 5 stars to Sol"...is a totally appropriate and logical comment to make about what I do or do not know.

Your statement is indeed about what you KNOW of these planets, not about these planets themselves... You can easily observe what you know, it is inside YOUR OWN HEAD.

My thoughts, of course (or as ci would say, of coarse)...are in my head.

Can you name an idea you have had that is not in your head.

C'mon...desperation is one thing...but absurdity is something else.

Don't go down that far.

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
The rest of your post is at the same level of confusion between 2 different levels: the thing in itself, and our knowledge of this thing. For a realist like me, these are two very different things. Try not to confuse them.

There is no confusion in my posts, Olivier...and honestly, there is very little in yours either. [...] you are vacillating between saying it is wrong...and that it is merely a tautology.

That is laughable. If it is a tautology...it is not wrong.

It is a tautology, a platitude, a trivially true statement. Something which everybody agrees to by virtue of how the term of the statement are generally defined. Something true by definition.

Certainly not something I disagree with, technically, but not something I would raise for thousands of posts on end either.

Is this formulation "vascillating"?

Well...you seem to consider it absolutely worthless, trivial, a platitude...and of no value; while I consider it important...even vitally important.

And we have been talking about it for weeks now...in two different threads.

What do you think about that, Olivier?

When I think something is worthless and not worth considering...I just ignore it...or give it one or two shots...and then ignore it.

You go on endlessly with me day after day on this...while all the time proclaiming it to be valueless and trite and trivial.

Seems to me you don't see it as trivial at all.

Either that...or you really have to get your act together, Olivier! Wink

3 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I suspect that you know exactly what I am talking about...and further I suspect you mostly agree with what I am saying, but just do not have the strength of character to simply say that you do.

Don't stop at suspicions. After all, I defined them my way and you did not like my definitions... Simply and honestly say how you define "gods" and "knowledge" and we shall objectively see if it's very far from my understanding of these terms posted upthread...

Nah...you really have no interest in actually discussing this. You just want the game playing and all I'd be doing is jumping through hoops.

That is why you are spending so much time and energy on it, because the subject itself is trivial and worthless in your estimation...but trying to get me to jump through hoops is actually your objective.

Me...I find the topic very interesting...and very valuable.

And I find playing with a toy to be fun also. I'm good at it.

Stick around...you may learn to be as good. Wink

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Another insulting advise from frankie boy.

Quote:

Either that...or you really have to get your act together, Olivier! Wink

wink, wink....

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Another insulting advise from frankie boy.

Quote:
Either that...or you really have to get your act together, Olivier! Wink

wink, wink....

Send in the clowns:

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/clown.gif

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/vil2-joke.gif

http://yoursmiles.org/psmile/clown/p0815.gif

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/humour-blague/clown-jonglerie/vil2_joker3.gif

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Another insulting advise from frankie boy.

Quote:
Either that...or you really have to get your act together, Olivier! Wink

wink, wink....

Here are just a few quotes from ci during the last two days...the guy talking about me doing insulting:

You're also too stupid to know what facts are.

Did you know you're a simple minded idiot?

You have no brains to think.

Only idiots like you see Obama as jesus –

That's funny coming from a jerk who thinks about sex all the time.

Your CONFUSION is exceeded only by your ignorance and your defective grammar.

He's not a liar, but an imbecile.

The only dimwit on a2k is you!

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

What do you think about that, Olivier?

When I think something is worthless and not worth considering...I just ignore it...or give it one or two shots...and then ignore it.

I only recently understood what you meant, translated in normal language....

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
What do you think about that, Olivier?

When I think something is worthless and not worth considering...I just ignore it...or give it one or two shots...and then ignore it.

I only recently understood what you meant, translated in normal language....

I doubt that.

I doubt that every bit as much as I doubted when you told me that friends of yours said I should "suck their cocks"...and you said you did not understand that expression.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Since I have made it abundantly clear that I do not know if there are any gods...I cannot possibly know anything about them.

Nor can Apisa know what actions can result from that position. Theists and atheists have a clear way to proceed but not knowing whether either of them is right is a route to running on the spot.

And lo and behold that is what Apisa has been doing on these threads and, seemingly, has every intention of continuing to do.

I suppose he must favour letting things take their natural course without any directional authority. Like a rolling stone.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

LOL. That was fun, but this time I am serious. It's your fault: you express yourself poorly, most of the times. I only recently realised you were talking of metaphysics. It's well know that metaphysics are a waste of time.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

How can metaphysics be a waste of time when it is entertaining and provides well remunerated occupations for persons of that class which is congenitally and psychologically incapable of activity requiring physical effort?

Any definitive conclusions are avoided because they would render the matter superfluous.

Are you, Olivier, like Apisa, going all around the houses to undermine Christian teachings on sexual behaviour without exposing to view which ones you reject and why in case viewers here get the idea that you routinely practice them.

Such a policy does rather suggest that you think those practices are disreputable yourself.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

...I do not know if there are any gods...I cannot possibly know anything about them.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here. These are very qualitatively distinct statements. The former is defensible because it is based on first-person, empirical data (personal experience). The latter is a metaphysical knowledge claim. Frank, would you allow that there may be some way that you might possibly know about them in the future, even though you don't at present?

I'm going to Ancient Greece here and showing where the dogmatic skeptics differed from the Pyrrhonian skeptics. Dogmatic skeptics claimed that knowledge was impossible, but the Pyrrhonians only stated that they didn't know yet, leaving open the possibility for future developments.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

Are you, Olivier, like Apisa, going all around the houses to undermine Christian teachings on sexual behaviour without exposing to view which ones you reject and why in case viewers here get the idea that you routinely practice them.

Isn't that your calling, rather? I am not the one criticizing the fine christian institution of marriage...

0 Replies

Quote:

Frank Apisa said: When I think something is worthless and not worth considering...I just ignore it...or give it one or two shots...and then ignore it.

But if it's still standing after you've fired your shots, you must be firing blanks.. Smile

As for ignoring things, some people might think you've got no answer and therefore have no choice but to ignore them!
Take my advice and get yourself some real firepower, we holy men have it in spades.. Smile

"They couldn't beat Paul in arguments because of his wisdom and the spirit" (Acts 6:10)

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

My thoughts, of course [...] are in my head.

Thanks for stating the obvious once again.

The point is that, if they are in your head, they are observable by you. So you failed to present a convincing example of "a logical comment about something you cannot observe." Try again! See if you can come up with one thing you know about the universe without any empirical proof of it.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

frankie boy wrote,

Quote:

My thoughts, of course [...] are in my head.

Can anybody tell us what frankie boy has informed us about by this revelation?
NOTHING.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

CI is an ignoramus and a liar. I guess every forum has a couple.

2 Replies

@Advocate,

You wrote,

Quote:

CI is an ignoramus and a liar. I guess every forum has a couple.

I have over 90,000 posts on a2k. Please cut and paste from any of my posts that are lies or based on ignorance?

If you can't, it means those lies applies to you, and not me!

2 Replies

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