Atheism

And some people self-identify as Napoleon. That doesn't make it so.

Hehehehehehe . . .

Max, in one of her more lucid moments . . .

I am pretty sure that Napoleon self-identified as Napolean. What's your point?

This is worth repeating--it was addressed to Max.



Although EB may lack formal education, i suspect he was very well educated in the schools of Life and Hard Knocks.

Would you say that anyone who self-identifies as Napoleon is, by virtue of that fact, Napoleon?

What are you suggesting Joe; that I am not religious even though I say I am? Or that I am not an Atheist?

Is this some kind of religious test for this non-religion?

I have no idea what you are. You could be an atheist. You could be religious. You could be neither. I'm confident, however, that you can't be both.

Just because you hold a number of beliefs doesn't mean you are religious. Everybody believes in something or another. Atheism is often defined as the belief that there is no god.

For our purposes it's better as: "A conclusion that there is no God"

And what would your purposes be?

You can call it as you want, but it is a belief.

Maybe your grasp of the nuances of these two words, conclusion and belief, doesn't allow you to see the difference.

But I assure you in the context of this thread, it makes all the difference in the world

I don't believe that there is a god, but that's not quite the same as a belief that there is no god. I don't know if there is a god, and i don't care. I would be willing to accept a plausible definition of god, if one were offered. So far, no one has ever come up with one. Even god as prime mover and nothing more suffers from an unnecessary multiplication of causes. There are those who are called strong atheists who don't deal in belief--they assert that there is no god. I'm not one of them. Despite Max's hysteria, none of the subjects move me deeply.

Amen!









Oops . . .

What is your definition of "atheist", Joe? I really thought it had to do with not believing in any god.

If not believing in any god is all there is to being atheist (as some people here so adamantly assert) than what does that have to do with being religious or not?

Why does my not believing in god prevent me from being religious?

They are two completely separate phenomena.

And I assure you I don't give a rat's ass about your nuances.

Then you are more of an agnostic more than an atheist. You don't know and you don't care much.

How would you define "religious", then?

In order to be religious, you have to: (a) believe in some manner of supernatural being(s) or force that is a "higher power;" and (b) belong in some fashion to an organization of like-minded believers, the purpose of which is to worship said being(s) or force. As an "atheist," I'm confident that you don't satisfy either criterion.

Perhaps you misunderstood; you are certainly very angry.

I have a lot of respect for your ability to debate on A2K seeing as how English is not your native tongue.
I could never accomplish that on a French forum.

I believe that human life has sacred meaning far beyond the proteins and dna and evolution that explain it in nature.
I believe that watching my children be born had meaning far beyond the science behind that event, and I believe that when I look in my children's eyes I am seeing eternity... the entire reason for the existence of the Universe.
I believe in justice and freedom and universal rights-- that human beings have the inherent right to be treated with fairness and dignity.

All of these beliefs are supernatural... they can't be explained by science and reason. I believe them because I believe them.

This is my religion. None of this requires that I believe in God.