Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 11:48 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
That is all I was saying.


Quote:
In my opinion, it was an excellent, clever response to what I see as an unnecessarily insulting, demeaning perspective of atheists.


I know you do not claim to be an atheist but would it be wrong to say you are a non-theist?

A little history of agnostics.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGMqKCcN6A[/youtube]


For reasons I have mentioned a couple of times, I have pretty much abandoned the "agnostic" in favor of "non-theist."
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 11:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
For reasons I have mentioned a couple of times, I have pretty much abandoned the "agnostic" in favor of "non-theist."


I was not aware of this and I do apologize for asking you to repeat yourself but would you kindly share with me and others again why you abandoned agnosticism? I did not know that you had abandoned it.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 12:12 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

FBM wrote:

A group of soldiers in a war saying that they're atheists is not empirical evidence for atheists in the metaphorical "foxholes"?

What do you require, then? What more evidence can you have that someone is an atheist than his/her own profession that such is the case?


Certainly something more than mere assertions.


What, besides assertions, could be used as evidence that a person is an atheist?

I don't think that something like beliefs can be proven empirically. A psychological evaluation might be more revealing, though.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 12:24 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
I don't think that something like beliefs can be proven empirically. A psychological evaluation might be more revealing, though.


Maybe you are correct and your belief may be that if someone rapes you and sodomizes you that we can not know empirically if you have been dramatized by such an event by the way you have expressed yourself but yet you would be in favor of a psychological evaluation so that we could understand it in a more revealing way?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 02:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
For reasons I have mentioned a couple of times, I have pretty much abandoned the "agnostic" in favor of "non-theist."


I was not aware of this and I do apologize for asking you to repeat yourself but would you kindly share with me and others again why you abandoned agnosticism? I did not know that you had abandoned it.


I have not abandoned agnosticism...I have abandoned the term "agnostic."

I still use it when it is easier than explaining a position...but the term "agnostic" causes so much trouble in discussions with atheists, I have decided to use "non-theist" as a term that can be used in common with atheists. I am attempting to emphasize the common ground (of which there is plenty) between "agnosticism" and "atheism."
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 02:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
And just so I am completely clear...I DO use "agnostic" to identify myself from time to time...just not as much as I used to. The "abandonment" is not complete abandonment...so perhaps I ought to abandon the term "abandon" when discussing this issue. It just seems to me that I find more common ground with atheists when my position is described as "non-theist."

In the meantime, I am totally willing to offer the long form of my "agnosticism" whenever it is called for.

I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods; I do not know if there are no gods; I see no reason to suspect gods cannot exist; I see no reason that suggests gods are needed to explain existence; I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 02:52 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Atheists do not have a need to tithe to an inviable god. Is that a benefit?


They would need to tithe if they were in power. So the question does not arise.

"America" is an invisible God to anyone with an evolutionary perspective.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 02:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods; I do not know if there are no gods; I see no reason to suspect gods cannot exist; I see no reason that suggests gods are needed to explain existence; I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.



That is a cool response, Do you think that non-theist would be a good position to adhere to being that you do not believe?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:02 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods; I do not know if there are no gods; I see no reason to suspect gods cannot exist; I see no reason that suggests gods are needed to explain existence; I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction.



That is a cool response, Do you think that non-theist would be a good position to adhere to being that you do not believe?


I do not understand the question.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
But the “there are no atheists in foxholes” comment is presumptuous, gratuitous, and without foundation or justification.


I agree. I wouldn't dream of saying a thing like that. I don't think I would dignify such a statement with a response. If it rattled anybody they must be a bit unsure of themselves.

I responded to the picture in order to alert A2Kers to the suspect nature of pictures in general and without saying that all pictures are suspect. That pictures should be thought about before deriving any conclusions from them.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
That is a cool response, Do you think that non-theist would be a good That is a cool response, Do you think that non-theist would be a good position to adhere to being that you do not believe?



I do not understand the question?


If I were to ask you if non-fairyest would be a good response, Do you think that non-fairyest would be a good position to adhere to being that you do not believe in fairies?
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:22 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
A psychological evaluation might be more revealing, though.


I've been trying for years Blue to bring some psychological observations into these matters. They won't go near it.

The possibility that there might be some psycho-somatic healing benefits in beliefs and the ceremonials designed to reinforce them for millions of people is not something most atheists are prepared to consider.

I am an atheist who has been prepared to consider the possibility, and even a small possibility, and it might well be more than that, outweighs any personal conveniences of my own in the sexual morality field.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:25 pm
@reasoning logic,
Why do you always fall back on rape and sodomy rl?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:25 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I am an atheist who has been prepared to consider the possibility, and even a small possibility, and it might well be more than that, outweighs any personal conveniences of my own in the sexual morality field.


So being an atheist you see a need to preach lies to others?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:29 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Why do you always fall back on rape and sodomy rl?


Because even though there may be some as yourself who find pleasure in it, I was just curious to how others may have seen it.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:30 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
So being an atheist you see a need to preach lies to others?


If they are healing lies--yes.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 03:34 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
If they are healing lies--yes.


Even lies that promote the anal canal healing?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 04:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Because even though there may be some as yourself who find pleasure in it I was just curious to how others may have seen it.


In what way do you think I might find pleasure in such things? You have to be able to imagine that there is pleasure in such things to be able to suggest that I find that there is. Surely? I cannot see it. Will you explain how it might be.

I bet you have a very large circle of devoted friends if you go about saying such things as that.

On what do you base your slimy, ignorant and moronic supposition?

You have not one iota of curiosity in you rl?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 05:10 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
In what way do you think I might find pleasure in such things? You have to be able to imagine that there is pleasure in such things to be able to suggest that I find that there is. Surely? I cannot see it. Will you explain how it might be.


I do apologize for seeing things incorrectly, but I have not noticed anywhere where you have taken the side of the victim in any case where the man in the long dark robe has been accused. If you have I do apologize and if you would be kind and share one of your post that shows that you had compassion for the victim instead of the man in the long dark robe it would be helpful for me.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 11 May, 2013 05:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
I have compassion for drone victims rl and there are a lot more of them than there are the victims you have in your organ grinder and their symptoms are a good deal more traumatic.
 

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