failures art
 
  3  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 08:29 pm
@Setanta,
When I was a manager at an arcade, we had a reoccurring problem with Christian groups coming in during the day and leaving religious comic books on the video game cabinets. They'd basically paper the whole arcade if we weren't looking.

I kept one of the comics and read it. It was obviously designed for kids. Hardly offensive to my social sensibilities, but as a manager, I felt like I was constantly cleaning up after them.

We caught one of the people once. I told him that he couldn't post propaganda like brochures or comics without approval of the general manager and the TILT company. He became very indignant when I gave him back a box of the comics and i asked him to leave. He dumped the box outside the entrance to the arcade.

People in the mall often know people from other stores, and the water cooler chat in the food court was that the same group had been doing this in many of the stores. Mostly stores where teens where the market like toy and clothing stores. One day the comics stopped appearing in the arcade and in dressing rooms in the mall. Rumor was that the mall banned the group and threatened to press charges if they continued to solicit in the mall. Whether this is true or not, I'm not sure.

I need to find that comic and scan it so I can share it. It was a comic about a grumpy atheist and a super happy Christian. The atheist refuses to (literally) "see the light." In the end, he feels lonely and turns around and is somehow better for it.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 08:35 pm
@Setanta,
I didn't "boil the water." You don't drop it, because it's your nature to have the last word. Go ahead. Have it. Then, drop it.

A
R
T
Setanta
 
  -1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 08:41 pm
@failures art,
I'll drop it as soon as you drop it. I was talking to other people, with no rancor when you showed up with your whiny hatefulness. You're the one who started this fight, and you're the who keeps it going.

**** off, puke, don't tell me what to do. If you want it dropped, you need to drop it yourself, because i will have the last word when a stupid, hateful punk like you attacks me, repeatedly, as you've been doing all day.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:02 pm
@Setanta,
That's awful Set - to get outraged about your atheism and freeze you out. Maybe if you were a serial killer the guy might have tried to save your soul, but an atheist! Beyond redemption.

I can't speak about her 'outing' when she was first elected as an MP - generally your religious affiliations are considered your own business, although two well known pollies have been explicit in their christianity (the former prime minister and the current opposition leader).

When the current PM took her position (through some internal politicking) last June she announced an election to take place in August (to get a mandate for her government). The question was asked in a press interview, probably because her predecessor was a 'neon christian'. She didn't hedge at all, to her credit. There was some media traffic about whether that could hurt her with christian voters, but traditionally the Australian electorate doesn't care.

I just did a little search and I think our first overtly, and proudly, atheist PM was Gough Whitlam (1972-1975) who also raised the ire of the church by removing sales tax on birth control pills. Since then we've had the agnostic Bob Hawke, and the much less 'neon' christians Keating and Howard.

We do have a looney ultra religious right, but it's a much smaller percentage of the population than the US.

Gillard is not a militant atheist. She is more than willing to attend church services for fallen soldiers and professes her respect for all religions.

Here's the second half of a story about Gillard's atheism outing from the very reasonable (read 'not owned by Rupert Murdoch') Sydney Morning Herald
Quote:
It seems unlikely the Christian lobby will lay out the red carpet and the internet link for the latest Prime Minister, Julia Gillard. If believers were in the dark about Gillard's religious convictions, they needed only to tune in to the ABC's Jon Faine program yesterday.

FAINE: Do you believe in God?

PM: No, I don't Jon, I'm not a religious person.

Amazingly, the radio station was not struck by lightning.

Gillard hastened to add she was brought up a Baptist, attending the Mitcham Baptist Church. Why, she even won catechism prizes for remembering verses from the Bible.

''But during my adult life I've, you know, found a different path,'' she declared. ''I'm, of course, a great respecter of religious beliefs but they're not my beliefs.''

Quite. But was she worried about the Christian vote, Faine inquired? ''Look I'm, you know, worried about the national interest, about doing the right thing by Australians and I'll allow, you know, people to form their own views on whatever is going to drive their views,'' Gillard replied.

It seemed likely to have some of the devout falling to their knees to pray for the salvation of Gillard's soul. The more hardline may have been struck with a vision of hellfire. An unmarried woman . . . and an atheist to boot?

The last Australian PM who dared to express doubts about an Almighty was Bob Hawke, son of a Congregationalist preacher. But even he couldn't bring himself to declare himself an atheist. Hawke was agnostic. It sometimes seemed possible that the booze-challenged, womanising hell-raiser figured no deity could compete.

Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:04 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:
That's awful Set - to get outraged about your atheism and freeze you out. Maybe if you were a serial killer the guy might have tried to save your soul, but an atheist! Beyond redemption.


I had never looked at it that way, Boss. Kinda funny, though, ain't it?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:06 pm
It was a shame about Gough Whitlam--the CIA was behind much of that bullshit. His big sin, though, was his unwillingness to have Australian troops in Vietnam.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:23 pm
Wow, EB, that's wild. Did she have shouting matches with everyone all the time?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:23 pm
@Setanta,
My aunt treated me the same way when she discovered my atheism, set. Any time she saw a member of my immediate family she began her diatribes. She had us all figured for atheists, despite the fact no more than half were.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 4 Jan, 2011 09:25 pm
@Setanta,
She was a loud, forceful woman, who went down and chewed out her husband's boss. Also a back stabber.
mesquite
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 12:22 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:
I am curious as to what denomination these "Christians" that were knocking on your door are. There are actually very few that do that.

I had a couple at my door just last Saturday (New Years Day). It was a woman and a teen age boy. The woman wore a dress and the boy had on a white shirt and tie. The woman did not announce her denomination. She just said she wanted to read me some words from Jesus. I said, "thank you but I am not interested". She replied, "Please just listen to these words. In the book of John..." Again I said, "Thank you, but I really am not interested". It took a couple of more back and forths before she finally gave up and left.

I see these groups in my neighborhood on a regular basis, but they seldom stop at my door any more. I don't think they were JWs because they did not attempt to leave Watch Tower pamphlets as the JWs used to. I suspect they were Mormons, but that is only a guess.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 12:47 am
@littlek,
littlek,
A few pages back you asked me this in response to some statements about the actual discussions of the core atheist contributors to this thread;
littlek wrote:

Why don't you go ahead and be a little more specific.


I replied as follows;
Quote:
Right from the first post the "discussion of atheism" was about the folly of religion and believers, and not about the experience of believing in nothing but the observable world. Indeed, that and subsequent complaints about "ridiculously obnoxious" theist interlopers, have dominated almost all of the discussions among your key posters here. Scan a few pages and see for yourself. There are some direct references and discussions of the experience of atheism, etc. , however they occupy, at best, less than half of the acerage here.

I'll also note that, apart from a few expressions of skepticism and incredulity about the denial of a creator, or the foundation for a system of morality or ethics in the absence of one, I have not made an unkind characterization of atheism, atheists or anyone posting here. That is not something that your key claques here can truthfully assert.


I never got a response from you, but from the tone and content of the last few pages I can understand why you may not be hanging around much.

Do you believe my assessment was wrong??
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 01:14 am
@mesquite,
I suspect they were not Mormons. At least around here, they are good about taking 'no' for an answer. Also, they travel in pairs - two young men practically in uniform. Black pants, black tie, white shirt, and a name tag with their names and denomination.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 01:59 am
@roger,
roger, I also found Mormons who knocked on our door were not pushy at all. They accepted any explanation, and left without pursuing the issue - like some we've had.

True! They worked in pairs, and were always well dressed.

Haven't seen them around lately, but did have other denominations who wanted more than just a no. I just tell them we're buddhist, and that seems to satisfy them.

On the other hand, my siblings are christians, and they're still trying to "save me."

Bummer.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 02:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
What you will find with any door knocking denomination, is that they will have to conform to the laws of their trade, in other words, there is always an opt out button.

If you ask them not to call any more and add you to thier no call list, they are bound by law to give you I think 5 - 7 years grace. Problem solved.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 03:40 am
@Smileyrius,
Smiley, That's what I always thought, and made that claim when I received a phone call just last week. They were doing a survey of some kind, and I told them I wasn't interested, and that we were on the "no calls list." The caller said, that doesn't make any difference, so I researched it, and found this in Wiki:

Quote:
Placing one's number on the National Do Not Call Registry will stop most, but not all, unsolicited calls. The following are exceptions granted by existing laws and regulations.

* The registry only applies to residential lines, not to business lines.[4]
* A person may still receive calls from political organizations.
o The organization Citizens for Civil Discourse has lobbied Congress to close this loophole by developing a National Political Do Not Call Registry where voters can register their phone numbers and ask politicians to take the "Do Not Contact Pledge". Its database is not backed by the force of law and as of November 2008, only 3 politicians running for office signed the pledge.[5]
* A person may still receive calls from not-for-profit organizations.[6]
* A person may still receive calls from those conducting surveys.
* A person may still receive calls from companies with which he or she has an existing business relationship for up to 18 months after his or her last purchase, payment, or delivery from it, unless person specifically asks the company not to call again.
* A person may still receive calls from a company up to 31 days[7] after submitting an application or inquiry to that company, unless the company is specifically asked not to call.
* A person may still receive calls from bill collectors (either primary creditors or collection agencies). These callers are, however, regulated by other laws, such as those limiting them to calling during "reasonable hours." Some creditors may not call debtors who file for bankruptcy protection.


Never stop learning something new. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 04:23 am
@edgarblythe,
My background was not religious. As i've often mentioned, i was raised by my grandparents. My grandfather was a "lapsed Catholic," and religion seemed to form no part of his life. My grandmother was a Protestant, but not a church-going woman. I learned Protestant hymns because she sang them as she worked around the house. However, she felt it her duty to see that we (her daughter's children) attended Catholic instruction, because my mother had converted on the occasion of marrying my father.

My antipathy to Catholicism was therefore based solely on my personal experience, and had no reference to my family, other than that one aunt with whom i later lived had insisted that i attend the mass. When i had had my fill of the church, her only stipulation was that i be confirmed. I made a deal whereby i would endure that ritual, and she would desist from insisting that i attend the mass thereafter. We both kept our parts of the bargain. Thereafter, i just drifted away. There was no dismay or pressure from either my grandmother or my aunt, and on those occasions when i saw my mother, the subject never came up. I guess the initial fervor of the convert had cooled for her.

So there was never any serious struggle, and never any pressure from any member of my family. Despite what people like to allege, i've never seen atheism in the light of a bitter and acrimonious struggle. I don't know how i'd have dealt with woman such as you describe your aunt being. I had two aunts whom i dearly loved, and i likely would have been dismayed to have lost the affection of either of them, but that was not my lot. I think i'd have just drifted away regardless. It was more a matter of realizing one day that i was no longer even agnostic--it simply was no longer an issue, and the whole god dog and pony show was not sufficiently convincing to make a special case, which is how i see agnostics reacting to the question.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 04:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
damn those loopholes eh Very Happy
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 04:49 am
@Smileyrius,
After I learn who's calling that shouldn't be will not be treated very kindly - especially if they call at meal time.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 05:39 am
@Setanta,
I had thought of my aunt as being a friend, to that point. She effectively cut me off from her entire family, which consisted of several members. It is a rift that continues, although she died several years ago.

Another aunt, whom I had not seen in quite a few years, walked out of the room, when her husband reminded me of a religious argument he and I once had - when I was about twenty! The topic was the furthest thing from my mind before he spoke about it. When I grinned and said, "If it makes you happy to believe and go to church, then you should go," she reviewed in her mind the argument from the past and left the room to avoid anything I might say. Fortunately, he let it drop when I did not put up a fight.

My parents apparently believed, after a fashion, but they looked on church goers as somewhat screwy.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Wed 5 Jan, 2011 05:49 pm
Atheism crops back up on House. Candace Bergman playing Cuddy's mother asks if House will convert if he and Cuddy marry. Not terribly insightful except that it's out there.

http://www.tvline.com/2011/01/house-video-spoilers-cuddys-mom/
0 Replies
 
 

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