Atheism

@edgarblythe,

I like that EB, that's a good one.

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@Setanta,

You can tell the good ones. They get voted down.

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@edgarblythe,

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You can tell the good ones. They get voted down.

Why thank you Mister Edd.....

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@Ionus,

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Just exactly what do you think double blind will do with testing vitamin C

It prevents the reserchers from knowing who gets what. Its the Heisenberg principle in biology.

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Hundreds ? Did you know that any drug administered to someone who doesnt need it produces no result

I googled the number of studies and got 30 detailed astudies and the others were mentioned without comments. The studies of vitamin C were based upon claims made mostly by Linus PAuling and some eager reserchers wanted to test his bullshit factor. Drugs get tested long term for efficacy, safety, side effects and several other components before they are considered for release to their labelled use. Vitamin C has been with us as an OC prep and a natural supplement. SO the sought after information was to try to prove or disprove a claim and to determine the efficacy .

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Your dismissal of placebo, prayer and hypnotism are not endearing to believe you have an open mind

Once again you jump to unfounded and unsupported conclusions. I never said nor implied that a placebo effect was unfounded. In every drug test, placebo effects are accounrted for and the "double blindedness" keeps the researchers from tipping off the study subjects.
Wherher prayer is a placebo or not is kind of important (unless you are adding that Gawd is in control of the placebo effect of prayer too? I really dont give a rats ass but you seem to be the one who was dismissing all sorts of studies (How did you refer to them as?) rather tha trying to understand them better.

I say that , with what youve stated, you are anti scientific method

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@farmerman,

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Just exactly what do you think double blind will do with testing vitamin C
It prevents the reserchers from knowing who gets what. Its the Heisenberg principle in biology.

I know what it is...what do you think it will do to vitamin C testing ?

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Drugs get tested long term for efficacy, safety, side effects and several other components before they are considered for release to their labelled use.

To very degrees of effective testing.....otherwise a lot of lawyers would not be rich.

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SO the sought after information was to try to prove or disprove a claim and to determine the efficacy .

Did you read where I said they tested healthy people after giving them a cold ? What if vitamin C helped people who got a cold through stress or other weaknesses in the immune system...or even sinus trouble.....how did they test for that ? They didnt. This is why there is peer revue. Many studies are garbage.

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I say that , with what youve stated, you are anti scientific method

And I say you are wrong. Just because a study is done doesnt mean it is done correctly. You do know about the assumptions made in testing, dont you ?

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I never said nor implied that a placebo effect was unfounded.

You were very dismissive of prayer. How do you know it does not have a placebo or self hypnosis effect ?

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@Setanta,

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I like that EB, that's a good one.

What's good about it? Everybody over the age of about 8, lower in some advanced family units, knows where we come from. And where we are going.

Heaven is like the pub. When you're on your way to it you imagine it will be full of pretty, young ladies all agog to hear your latest repartee and vying with each other to be chosen. Like in Renoir. It makes the route less unenjoyable. The beckoning strings of fairy-lights, festooned from end to end, the red curtains drawn partially in tart's knickers mode and the front swing doors all add to the image as do most of the logos on the bottles.

You know you are kidding yourself and that when you get there the usual old-stagers will be telling how they took their two grandsons for a walk in the park and that they climbed up some trees and splashed their feet in the puddles as if nobody else's grandsons ever did such things and thus it was a special and superior aspect of the genetic material the poor little fuckers had so unluckily been saddled with as a result of a shag in the back of a car on the music shop's car park after Grab a Granny Nite had wound down. Or that they had made a bird table out of a discarded pallet. I usually mime someone playing a sad violin solo at that one. (All true-all too true.)

Anticipating that on the way to the pub makes the route almost unendurable but one presses on facing into the hard driving sleet. Hope springs eternal.

It is possible, if only as a highly speculative hypothesis, that the liquidation of hope would be economically disastrous. I've read stuff about it being biologically disastrous too. I've an open mind on those matters but I'm not up for hope being exterminated on the back of a few slogans, insults, sarcasms and half-backed science from people who are cosying up to science because they think it sets them apart from the rest of us.

Atheism is the eradication of hope. And it has no chance.

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Spendi wrote:

Atheism is the eradication of hope. And it has no chance.

Ah, Spendi!

Another of your out of this world statements..

If you only knew how tenacious hope is!

All the Pandoras in the universe will not make me abandon hope.

And I know it has a chance, atheism or not..

1 Reply

@farmerman,

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Wherher prayer is a placebo or not is kind of important (unless you are adding that Gawd is in control of the placebo effect of prayer too?

What's the "kind of" for fm? It's a bit weasely. Are you scared of saying it is important right out. You don't wish to be dismissing the idea but on the other hand you want to diminish the idea without being seen to have dismissed it. Not pedantically. You would like to dismiss it.

You don't want to allow that prayer might have a medical value because it would mean you are arguing to remove the value from those it might benefit after admitting, however bashfully, that it is important.

No wonder you're an expert on the "bullshit factor".

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@spendius,

"Kind of important", goes over your head in its economy. I use it in the ame fashion as if Id say

"Wearing a helmet is kind of important if you want to keep your head identifiable after the crash, dont you think?"

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@Francis,

You have read me wrong Francis. I meant atheism is a synonym for the eradication of hope and has no chance as you so rightly agree.

One might have brain implants, pharmaceutical treatments, re-training centres and such things. Science might eradicate hope by tinkering with the mechanism. Had the chambermaid in Alphaville any hope?

Will the tinkerers tinker with themselves though?

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@farmerman,

That doesn't butter my toast fm.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

You have read me wrong Francis. I meant atheism is a synonym for the eradication of hope and has no chance as you so rightly agree.

Atheism doesn't eradicate hope spendi. I'm no less hopeful than the stanchest of religious faithful. Meanwhile, you're the one in the pub, hiding. You're only hope is who will walk through the door. You're a decoration in the bar; a photograph on the wall. Completely boring.

A
R
T

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You're still wrong, spendi. If atheism is a synonym for the eradication of hope, why has this world survived before the christian religion even came on the human scene only two thousand years ago?

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@cicerone imposter,

Spirit worlds, ancestors, higher worlds, lower worlds, reincarnations, metamorphoses, happy hunting grounds, the dreamtime.

Anyway, we are only discussing our world. Avowing atheism in some other worlds was more dangerous than in this one.

Are you aware of living conditions outside of the Christian culture. And they have been bad enough inside it at times.

The human world can survive anything with the possible exception of Science leaving aside cosmological catastrophes.

Do you think Christianity a big mistake?

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Atheism is the eradication of bullshit. The only hope I am missing is the misguided expectation of an afterlife. Since it ain't there anyway, why waste time pining for it? In general, an atheist lives and plans pretty much the same way anybody else does. Except he has more time for it, since he does not waste his time on fruitless religious exercises.

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@spendius,

Wasn't exactly safe when christians persecuted heretics and non-believers - by the thousands. Islam is based on the same bible christians use; many verses are word-for-word, and we know of some of those countries that stone women to death for not covering up. It's also the same, one, god. Funny how that works!

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@cicerone imposter,

I never said it wasn't ci.

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@spendius,

spendi:

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Do you think Christianity a big mistake?

All religions are a big mistake. Spending time to placate gods is a waste of time; **** happens whether people believe in gods or not.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Atheism is the eradication of bullshit. The only hope I am missing is the misguided expectation of an afterlife. Since it ain't there anyway, why waste time pining for it? In general, an atheist lives and plans pretty much the same way anybody else does. Except he has more time for it, since he does not waste his time on fruitless religious exercises.

Religious exercises are no less fruitless than watching a football game, listening to music, writing poetry or anything else that time is spent on. It is only fruitless to those who choose to ignore it. Much like I choose to ignore football and hockey. I do enjoy a good baseball game, however.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Wasn't exactly safe when christians persecuted heretics and non-believers - by the thousands. Islam is based on the same bible christians use; many verses are word-for-word, and we know of some of those countries that stone women to death for not covering up. It's also the same, one, god. Funny how that works!

I wonder if the death penalty in the U.S. is more favourably because it doesn't have the gore factor that stoning does.

Of course, I condemn stoning. However, one has to look beyond the obvious.

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